How do these ideas fix Power Attack?

[frankthedm]

2) Find a way to give player's a way to increase damage.

4E has that built into characters already, IIRC.

4) Keep in working fast and scaling well.

Whatever the replacement is should be quick to use, but there is no need for it to "scale well". Low level feats are not supposed to be so potent that they make or break a character at much higher level.

Power Attack (pre: Str 13+)

You may choose to use power attack as a full-round action. Make a single melee attack. If the attack hits your foe, add a damage bonus to your attack equal to the amount your attack roll is greater than your foe's armor class. If your attack misses, your opponent may make an attack of opportunity against you.

You may only use this feat once per round.

too much variable damage at low level for 4E.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Most players aren't going to "abuse" power attack. This is why most of you haven't seen players in your games doing it. The players who do it are those power gamers who do push the limits of the game that test how well the system holds up. They are the ones that do this with it. The original feat either is underperforming (making you hit less but do more damage, working out to the same average damage per round) or broken depending on how it is used in conjunction with other game effects.

Once a power gamer figures out a broken combo and it spreads into peoples games, it hurts the integrity of the game system, people's trust in it and for organized or tournament style play where house rules aren't used to fix those problems.

I'm gonna have to call BS on this. I have seen Power Attack reduce a PhD to a near gibbering mess. And this guy did NOT power game. He simply didn't know how. But Power Attack was the bane and blessing of his 15th+ level Fighter. From about 15th level on PA became a real pain to figure out as more and more modifiers were added and subtracted from his attack bonus. It got to the point that the 19th level wizard could finish her turn (Time Stop and all) in less time than it took him to work out his attack bonus and damage for a single attack. :\

PA is a pain in the arse at high levels and it is not the providence of power gamers alone.

 

[Li Shenron]

Maybe somehow when I played 3e with my friends, I was playing it radically different, but I never saw this whole sliding-scale probability-analyzing thing going on in the games I played.

Power Attack was the sort of thing that was either not used, or used at full power. A very common Fighter phrase used at the table was "Power Attacking for full".

Some of us have often chosen to PA for less than full, and it makes sense to me that a fighter would choose to do that... why not? There is no problem if a Ftr10 that could PA for +10/-10 chooses to use it for +5/-5, unless there was a problem with a Ftr5 using it to its full.

Probability sheets are a different matter. I've seen them online and frankly I think they are insane. Thank god none of the groups I've played in has this sort of approach to the game, because it looks like a form of mental masturbation to me. But even if I dislike it, I don't care if someone else wants to play the game that way! But it pisses me off if because a tiny FEW amount of people play it "the wrong way", someone feels like the game has to change...

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Some of us have often chosen to PA for less than full, and it makes sense to me that a fighter would choose to do that... why not? There is no problem if a Ftr10 that could PA for +10/-10 chooses to use it for +5/-5, unless there was a problem with a Ftr5 using it to its full.

Probability sheets are a different matter. I've seen them online and frankly I think they are insane. Thank god none of the groups I've played in has this sort of approach to the game, because it looks like a form of mental masturbation to me. But even if I dislike it, I don't care if someone else wants to play the game that way! But it pisses me off if because a tiny FEW amount of people play it "the wrong way", someone feels like the game has to change...

I can understand why people make such sheets (in fact, I did the same, but for comparing Monk and Fighter combat power), but using them at the table - I hope it never comes so far.

 

[Najo]

I'm gonna have to call BS on this. I have seen Power Attack reduce a PhD to a near gibbering mess. And this guy did NOT power game. He simply didn't know how. But Power Attack was the bane and blessing of his 15th+ level Fighter. From about 15th level on PA became a real pain to figure out as more and more modifiers were added and subtracted from his attack bonus. It got to the point that the 19th level wizard could finish her turn (Time Stop and all) in less time than it took him to work out his attack bonus and damage for a single attack. :\

PA is a pain in the arse at high levels and it is not the providence of power gamers alone.

I agree with you. I have said something similar in another one of my posts. You are just misunderstanding my point here and in turn accidently taking it out of context. There is no BS to call out as my comment is in addition to the problems you are discribing.

 

[Najo]

too much variable damage at low level for 4E.

Actually, I agree with you. The auto crit one is better and doesn't break at high level.

 

[solkan_uk]

Personally I like Power Attack - the only thing I did do for a game was essentially give it to everyone free. Basically allowing them to choose to put their BAB on Attack or Damage.