How do we prepare to fight a dragon about which we know nothing?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Do you trust your DM?

If so, stop thinking that the DM is screwing you, and think that maybe all the lack of info is actually clues to the truth.

Maybe all your assumptions/knowledge is wrong, so further investigation into those assumptions/knowledge will result in "unknown". Maybe there is no real dragon? Or something similarly twisted.

Going to have to agree with B1, here.

I'm guessing you just think you know what you're up against. I'd start with assuming you've got the name wrong (which could throw off the commune spell, depending on how it was worded) and work my way outward from there. The dragon could be an illusion covering what's really there, a shapechanged critter or something even more exotic. (A painted construct or even a vehicle, perhaps.)

When the gods say "I dunno," you're either up against something beyond their power (unlikely at level 10, I hope) or you're asking them the wrong questions. Garbage In, Garbage Out.

 

[AuraSeer]

If your guesses are close to accurate, some of you are certainly going to die, and there's a large chance of a TPK. Any encounter 4 levels above APL is potentially deadly, and dragons are notoriously strong for their CR, even with the assumption that you get to prepare ahead of time.Since you can't really prepare in this circumstance, a dragon played well will tear you apart.

The lack of information about the dragon sounds like a strong symptom of Adversarial DM Syndrome. It's common for some DMs to have encounters with special pet monsters all planned out in their heads, and they will resist anything that would let you go off the script. If he's playing fair then the alternative is hardly any better-- a red dragon who can cast mind blank would be at least Ancient (CR 23).

Having less than half the expected wealth for your level is a concern, but it can't be too horrible, because your careers have lasted this long. It could be another indication of an adversarial DM, or he may just be running a campaign with lower than average magic.

As Quasqueton says, if you trust your DM then you shouldn't worry, because there's a plan behind this. But then, if you trusted your DM, I suppose you wouldn't be posting here.

I guess the only think you can really do for defenses is have additional castings of your mass resist or whatever, so you can swap elements if necessary. For attack spells, perhaps you can forgo elemental damage and concentrate on generic draconic weaknesses (e.g., use a lot of ray spells, or summon some incorporeal undead). And most importantly, if the DM does cheat in favor of his pet monster, don't be afraid to call him on it.

 

[Enkhidu]

To begin with, your wizard should be cranking out as many Stoneskin spells as possible until judgement day the day you decide to tackle the dragon. This, along with the right selection of resist energy spells will soak up a bunch (and I do mean a bunch) of the damage a dragon can dish out. In addition, Blink might save your wizard's bacon.

Also, with the difficulty in actually harming dragons becasue of AC and SR, it might behoove you to have the psion use Empathic Feedback - a full attack on such a subject from the dragon would result in buckets of damage to the psion (mitigated by stoneskin, I would hope), and 8 (boosted) points in reflected damage to the dragon per hit.

 

[Jdvn1]

That's not necessarly true. Unless your DM stated that taking spells/whatever from the Draconomicon was A-OK, I suggest asking him. Also, flipping through the book in order to learn what the dragon -might- be able to do/be would be pretty poor play, IMHO.

Fortunately, the book is divided up into the "GM section" and the "Player section"... flipping through the book to learn what the dragon might be able to do is bad form, certainly, but looking at player options is certainly justifiable. That book is a pretty powerful book, and using a book as a GM while not allowing the book to be used by the players is also bad form.

... Though, now that I think of it, knowing what the dragon might be able to do isn't any worse than than knowing what the BBEG 15th level evil Necromancer might be able to do in a PHB-only game. Though, I wouldn't flip through the PHB just to see what spells a 15th level Necromancer could cast either.

 

[Mort]

Trust your DM is good advice in this situation, because if he's not trustworthy and pulling this on you - you have no real chance.
Going against an intelligently played dragon without advance knowledge of its abilities is suicidal.

on a suggestion note:
Why not have the wizard try a prying eyes spell (Wiz 5, assuming he can get it) that should provide some good observational info, the dragon probably won't notice, and even if it does some eyes will escape to report and leave you guys less in the dark.

 

[Barak]

Fortunately, the book is divided up into the "GM section" and the "Player section"... flipping through the book to learn what the dragon might be able to do is bad form, certainly, but looking at player options is certainly justifiable. That book is a pretty powerful book, and using a book as a GM while not allowing the book to be used by the players is also bad form.

... Though, now that I think of it, knowing what the dragon might be able to do isn't any worse than than knowing what the BBEG 15th level evil Necromancer might be able to do in a PHB-only game. Though, I wouldn't flip through the PHB just to see what spells a 15th level Necromancer could cast either.

Well, the part about flipping through the book to learn what the dragon might do was sort of a strawman on my part, in retrospect.

1-There's so many possibilities, really, that it would be an exercise in futility for Joshu to do so. It could be a brand new kinf of dragon from the New Monster section. It could be a dragon witha dragon Prestige Class. It could be a dragon using dragon spells. Or a dragon that took some of the new dragon feats. So, really.. It wouldn't help.

2-It was never suggested by the original post that he'd do that, anyway.

That said.. Just because the DM uses stuff from the book doesn't mean that everything in the player section is open to them. Granted, I, as a DM, would do so, but you can't just assume it is. And it doesn't mean the DM is playing unfairly.

For example, say the DM is planning to only have that one encounter with a dragon in the campaign, ever. That pretty much makes everything in the book useless for PCs.

 

[Quasqueton]

I have seen Players completely screw themselves up by confusing and misinterpreting and misunderstanding things in the campaign.

“Go to A, find B, and take it to C,” might be what they are told. But, somehow, over many game sessions, and other excitement, they go to X, looking for Z to give them Y. I have seen this kind of thing more than once. In fact, in one instance, they used divination magic to get information. I thought/hoped that when they got essentially gibberish back for the divination, it would be a big clue that they were doing something wrong. Unfortunately, they took it to mean that something was blocking/hindering their effort to get information, and that made them think they were on the right track. (Fortunately, my Players trusted me to not just be denying them legitimate info.)

Now, your group may not have made such a convoluted mistake. But maybe you have. Just think about it.

Quasqueton

 

[Mr. Draco]

Edit - d'oh... double post... see the real one below.

 

[Jdvn1]

That said.. Just because the DM uses stuff from the book doesn't mean that everything in the player section is open to them. Granted, I, as a DM, would do so, but you can't just assume it is. And it doesn't mean the DM is playing unfairly.

Okay, maybe not everything, but some of it would/should be. If none of it was allowed to the players, it could easily be construed as unfair. The availability of books affects balance, and when one person can use 10 books, but another person can use only 1, it's pretty likely the person with 10 books is going to be a bit more powerful.

If the DM only plans on using the books once and it's useless for the PCs, that's still fine. It's the players' prerogative to spend time/effort on stuff they'll only have to use once. If the players don't even have the option to do so, that's a balance issue.

Referring to specifics, meta-breath feats can get very, very powerful. If the PCs can find/use the spell that prevents a dragon from using its breath weapon, that's a good idea.

 

[Mr. Draco]

I would recommend one more shot at information gathering, before taking Rackhir's recon-in-force option. Get your ranger a scroll of commune with nature (or two, if you're worried about spell failure). Just make sure you're within the requisite number of miles of your dragon, and cast it, selecting information as appropriate (check with your DM first as to whether he considers dragons to fall under the general animal population, woodland creatures, or powerful unnatural creatures). Once again, make absolutely sure that the dragon is within range of this spell (have a party member watching it invisibly or something, etc...). The commune with nature will surely reveal the presence of a dragon, if there is one. If it doesn't reveal the presence of a dragon, check for information on the terrain (remember, construction and settlement will show up as blank spots), if you don't get any weird readings from this, use your third information choice to check for powerful, unnatural creatures.

This spell should confirm or deny the presence of said dragon. The way you've described the situation, I'm actually very doubtful that it even is a dragon. If it isn't, you've got to start asking more questions. First of all, people/a dragon have seen a red dragon, so whatever's out there clearly has access to illusion magic. Is it a magic-using humanoid? If so, then it'll have a base of operations, probably where the dragon's "den" is. This will show up as a blank spot in the commune with nature spell. Or it could be something else. A powerful outsider maybe? There are creatures with powerful illusion magic that wouldn't need to build themselves a tower/live in some building, so detecting for powerful, unnatural creatures would help be sure of that.

If this all fails, go for the recon-in-force, but try to be ready for anything, especially that there really isn't a dragon.