How do you defend against this?

[CatharticMoment]

Several months ago our characters had a mission to clean out a hive of Formians. Part way through the mission a Formian Queen appeared and started throwing around high level spells. Several characters died before we managed to pull out.

We decided to get our revenge, and came up with the following tactics (note this was under 3.0):

Rarys telepatchic bond is put up in order to co-ordinate everyone
The sorceror mass hastes the party
The wizard cast greater scrying in order to locate the current position of the formian queen.
The sorceror and wizard then teleport the party to the formian queen's location.
Multiple anti-magic shells were cast in order to stop the formian queen from casting any defensive magic.
The formian queen was surrounded and butchered by fighters and rogues.

At the end of the session we turned round and thought "What would happen if someone did this to us?" We looked at the various options available and came to the conclusion that we couldn't effectively defend ourselves.

None of the standard PHB spells for defending against teleport or scrying are up to the job. Bare in mind that it only takes a brief glimpse of your location for there to be a possibility of teleporting to it.

The best we could come up with was to either permantently live in an anti-magic zone, or to spend our entire lives regularly changing disguises (with the house rule that targeting of a scry is based on appearance and hence disguise can block it). Neither of these is a very satisfactory solution.

In my opinion, unless 20th level characters can rest safe in their beds without the fear that a 13th level party will teleport in at any moment and kill them, then the game is fundamentally broken.

I am aware that under 3.5 haste is less effective and scrying has a saving throw, but I still don't see the changes as being enough to block this tactic (especially considering that if the scry fails it can be attempted again at the attackers leisure)

Let me know what you think

Chris

 

[hong]

The Buff-Scry-Teleport thing is a pretty well known exploit. The best answer, short of nerfing a whole bunch of spells or devising lots of Rube Goldberg strategems, is not to think about it.

Basically, if the DM wants to, he can always screw you over. You'll just have to trust him not to do it. In return, you should try not to cheese it too much either. D&D has quite a few holes if you think of it purely in terms of tactics, and this is one of them.

 

[Grazzt]

Basically, if the DM wants to, he can always screw you over. You'll just have to trust him not to do it. In return, you should try not to cheese it too much either. D&D has quite a few holes if you think of it purely in terms of tactics, and this is one of them.

Yep- I believe I agree with Hong on this.

 

[Vaxalon]

In the SBG there are enchantments that can be placed on buildings (or parts of buildings) which block scrying and/or teleport specifically.

 

[Piratecat]

Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum from T&B seems like a pretty good solution. So does making amulets of non-detection.

 

[Rel]

The best answer that springs to mind is to never leave anyone alive who has both the means and the motivation to execute such a strategy. This is what all the Evil Overlords do.

It never works of course, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

 

[Kodam]

Hi!

Forbiddence will create Teleport-save areas. This will do for the beds at least...

Kodam

 

[MarauderX]

Hi!

Forbiddence will create Teleport-save areas. This will do for the beds at least...

Kodam

Enchant an item with the power and it's permanent, along with anti-scry items, and you will be difficult to find let alone get to.

 

[Antoine]

Basically, if the DM wants to, he can always screw you over. You'll just have to trust him not to do it. In return, you should try not to cheese it too much either. D&D has quite a few holes if you think of it purely in terms of tactics, and this is one of them.

It's always easier on the DM's side of the screen : some unexplained (in rules terms effet) circumstances will most often do the trick, such as limitations on teleportation in Forgotten Realm's underdark (radiations IIRC).

For PCs, Hong's point of view is exactly mine. Meanwhile, you can try some magical countermeasures for spell-casters, especially arcane which are the prime target of any hit and run action. Such as : act in disguise, abuse spells as non detection and misdirection (might read sequester and mind blank too), leave a few similacrums which can draw scrying attention to them. Use any type of polymorphed/disguised decoys… Operate with minimal magical equipement which can be left behind if helping your identification.

Based on personnal experience, flight is often best trick : a silent word of recall is a great life insurance for any cleric (silent spell feat also helps avoiding the silence spell nightmare, almost a mini anti-magic field with respect to low-level spellcasters). With some improved initiative and maximized Dex, you could pull out of trouble before these anti-magic fields are around.

But greater scrying, discern location rule the game : eventually, you'll be found, hunted and six foot under without you ever knowing what happened. So keeping the low profile suits for survivor, and remember the only enemies you probably can withstand are dead enemies.

 

[smetzger]

With 3.5 you can bump up your Will saves so its difficult to scry on.