How do you Distribute Magic Items?

[Trit One-Ear]

Ah the age old debate. Wish lists, inherent bonuses, take-what-I-give-you... and assuredly many more methods exist. My players have been patient with me of late, as I have been less than on top of handing out treasure. They can expect to find a good hoard sometime soon to make up for my unintended stinginess. Now as I try and sit down to dish out those coveted magic items... I'm not sure how to proceed.

Because this is the first full level we've played through with this group, most everyone has an equal number of magic items. However, using the treasure parcel system (with a little tweaking), there is one magic item fewer than there are players. How do you DMs (or you DMs) deal with handing these out?

My plan at the moment is what I hope to be a fair one; randomness. I'll roll before hand to decide who I "design" the magic item for, then pick something I feel is appropriate for their character design. I may allow players to create vague wish-lists (though I am against the concept generally), with which they can ask for "a neck slot item that helps my healing" or "Boots which give me more/another form of movement"

Please share your thoughts and methods!

Trit

 

[Quickleaf]

Treasure parcels? Sounds like you're using the DMG guidelines. Rules Compendium has treasure tables which you can use to determine whether or not there is a magic item and what it's level is. Determining what kind of item it is is left up to the DM however.

I like to mix it up. In my first 4e campaign I gave out treasure every 2-3 sessions (which happened to correspond to leveling), so the group tended to get a lot of treasure then. I think I just chose whatever I though suited the PCs plus a few plot magic items. As players learned the system a few requested items which I worked into the game.

 

[delericho]

Okay, I should note that I'm still using 3e, which means that I have the "Wealth by Level" tables to guide me. However, a similar mechanism sort-of exists in 4e - IIRC, when generating a character of level N, you get to choose one item of level N+1, one of level N, and then get enough gold for an item of level N-1. (I might have these numbers wrong, but I do recall that guideline.) Anyway, by totalling up the cost of the three items, you effectively get a "Wealth by Level" guideline.

(I should also note that in any case I treat it very much as a guideline - as long as the treasures aren't wildly off, I don't think it's too much of an issue.)

Anyway, I take the WbL value for the group's current level and subtract it from the WbL value for the next level, and multiply the result by the number of characters, and then add a bit (because they probably won't find/claim all the treasure, because they'll use up some treasure, and just because I'm a kindly soul). The resulting value is the total amount of treasure I'm looking to place.

(For example, my current 3e group were at 6th level heading for 7th. Per WbL, they 'should' have 13k treasure each, rising to 19k. So, that gives 6k per character, and with 5 characters that means I'm looking to place about 30-32k of treasure. I'm going to stick with 30k, because it makes the next bit of the math easier...)

Having gotten my total figure, I place about a third of that as money/gems/jewellery/other valuables. (Additionally, any magic items that the party can't use go into this category.) In all cases, I use the resale value of the item - what the PCs can get for the item when they sell it. The assumption here is that the PCs will sell all this stuff and use the proceeds to buy whatever they want, so the number that matters is the total amount of gold they end up with after having done that.

(So, in my example, I would place about 10k of 'valuables' - perhaps they find a chest of 3,000gp, a tapestry at 2,000gp, plus assorted jewellery, minor magic, or whatever else for the rest. I try to lean towards 'cool' treasures that are worth a moment's description, rather than a simple "you find 10,000 gold pieces".)

I take the remaining two-thirds of the money and multiply it by 5*, and place magic items to that value. However, when placing the items, I make sure to place items that are relevant to the members of the party, but specifically are not the precise items that they would choose for themselves. (In 3e, this generally means avoiding the "Big Six" powerful-but-dull items - that is, anything that simply gives a flat bonus to a attacks, defences, skills, or the like. 4e has a similar "Big Three", although these are a bit less ingrained in the system.)

The idea here is that treasures should be cool, and can be quite powerful, but they're not optimised to the character perfectly. So, if the group has a battle-axe wielding Fighter, I won't give out a magic bastard sword... but neither will I give out that +1 flaming holy battle axe bane vs evil outsiders that he would probably choose for himself given a free choice.

The end result is that the PCs should have an interesting choice - do they keep the treasures they have found, which are powerful but not a perfect match, or do they sell those on (at 20%) and use the money to buy items that are a perfect match but which are, on paper, less powerful?

* I use the same 20% resale value as 4e RAW. If I were running 3e RAW, where resale was 50%, the multiplier would be 2.

(So, going back to my example, in addition to the 10k worth of 'valuables', I would place 20 x 5 = 100k of magic items - avoiding the "Big Six", and leaning towards single, quite powerful items. So, for the aforementioned Fighter I might place a +2 keen battleaxe - quite a powerful item, but certainly not the optimal choice.)

I hope that helps at least a bit.

 

[Tallifer]

This is repeated information from me, but it is the best way for me to answer this question, and I love my own solution this much, mostly because it helps create interesting stories:

The treasure parcel system is quite fair, but it is still needlessly complicated. Here is how I work treasure in the Fourth Edition:

1. During the adventure, I roleplay the treasure. “You find a heap of gold coins and other valuable items in the orc chieftain’s chambers.” “You find many trophies, components, treasures and what look like magical items in the wizard’s library.” “You come across a well-stocked armoury.” The players can likewise roleplay what they found immediately: “We shove all the loot on a mule.” “Do I find a wand?” “Indeed you do: when you get out the dungeon, you can figure out what it is.”

2. Add up the total amount of treasure a party should get for a given level (add the gold piece value of the parcels together: there are tables on character optimization boards which give these numbers, but it is not hard to do). Divide this by the number of players: each player will have that abstract number measured in gold pieces, but the treasure can take whatever form they wish.

3. At the end of an adventure (not every session: that is too disruptive), the players can “find out” what they found in the adventure. That is, out of character the player chooses what his character found in the dungeon, limited by the gold-piece value of his portion. Players who cannot be bothered to choose can ask me for an item. I encourage the players to roleplay their discoveries and give colourful reasons for finding what they do.

4. This means that players are not limited to one item of a specific level. Under the official system two players cannot choose an item of the same level or get two low level items instead, et cetera. My system allows all the roleplaying during the adventure that people want, but very simple bookkeeping at the end of the day and absolutely no frustration. Indeed, I allow people to save up their treasure points for another level if they imagine some great magical treasure would suit their story better.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Because this is the first full level we've played through with this group, most everyone has an equal number of magic items. However, using the treasure parcel system (with a little tweaking), there is one magic item fewer than there are players. How do you DMs (or you DMs) deal with handing these out?

Well first of all, treasure parcels are guidelines. So I take away half of each level's monetary parcel, and replace it with a magical item for the last PC. (At the same Level +1 to +5 as other items.) Because leaving a PC without an item each level is just...annoying and obtuse.

Please share your thoughts and methods!

As much as I'd love getting wish lists from my players, I've only ever gotten one player to do so. (Picking out magical items is one of my least favorite ways to spend my time.) The other players, like me, don't like knowing exactly what they're getting.

So I just open up an appropriate doc -- for example I'll open the wands doc if the party has a wand-user -- and pick out the first cool looking wand I find. Again, 1 to 5 levels above the party's level.

Rinse and repeat for each character. Then it's just a matter of placing these parcels at appropriate points in the adventure.

 

[delericho]

This is repeated information from me, but it is the best way for me to answer this question, and I love my own solution this much...

That's a very nice system. Clean, and quick, and sounds like fun.

I would XP you, but apparently I need to spread some around first.

3. At the end of an adventure (not every session: that is too disruptive), the players can “find out” what they found in the adventure.

There is one tiny thing I'm not keen on with this system - it doesn't appear to have any scope for the PCs using some or all of the treasure they find right away. So, using a found magic sword against the BBEG, or even just finding a bunch of healing potions, would seem to be unavailable as an option.

Do you do anything to 'fix' this, or do you consider it a feature rather than a bug?

 

[Tallifer]

There is one tiny thing I'm not keen on with this system - it doesn't appear to have any scope for the PCs using some or all of the treasure they find right away. So, using a found magic sword against the BBEG, or even just finding a bunch of healing potions, would seem to be unavailable as an option.

Do you do anything to 'fix' this, or do you consider it a feature rather than a bug?

I often give small items (like a single flaming arrow or a single potion of healing or a strange and marginally useful item) without counting against the treasure count. For large and important fights, perhaps an artifact will factor in, in which case again it does not count against treasure parcels, although it is transient and at my whim like all artifacts.

 

[Trit One-Ear]

While I agree with much that is said above, I'm not a huge fan of having the players find out what they've looted back at town. Or rather, I'm pretty certain my players won't enjoy that as much.

I also dislike picking magic items, but may start working in a self-made random system. Asking players what item type they want (belt, bracers, gloves, etc) then selecting 2-3 items for that slot that roughly fit the level and the character and let the players roll randomly once they find "their" treasure. This means I'm less responsible for the loot, but can still as the roll change what they find if I think the items they roll is less than exciting.

Obviously, plot items and big rewards can still be designed or chosen normally.

Trit

 

[Balesir]

I actually enjoy picking magic items for the players, but at the same time I like that magic items are a party-based (as opposed to individual character-based) advancement resource. As a result, I pick some items that I think will be fun, but I also seed in plenty of components and I'm free with rituals for swapping item effects to other types of item (e.g. a wand effect to an orb or a sword effect to an axe - provided the enchantment is valid on the target item) and such like. Some items are also specifically rewards from powerful ritualists in the campaign; the players get to choose what they want these items to be (given a level limit to work with). Other than this, I just make sure to keep a good selection of neck items, armour, weapons and implements in the mix. Oh - and, where a player has expressed a wish to keep with a specific item, but level up the bonus as he levels, I occasionally add in an option or effect to boost the item's level. On one occasion (from a printed scenario) I gave an opportunity to feed a "final choice" item into a statue mouth, but the player chose to feed in a mundane sword, instead. He got a +2 sword out; he still thinks that, had he had the balls to feed in his existing +1 sword, he would have got a +3 sword out - and I probably would have given it, too!

 

[Jan van Leyden]

I'm using a slightly modified version of the DMG treasure parcel system in my game.

I have cooked up a STAT (Secret Treasure Allocation Table ) which lists magic item levels for each character over the course of 5 levels. The table is set up with a semblance of balance in that the level sum of the magic items is the same for each character, everyone gets the highest level item once, and some more points.

I ask the players for full wish lists for their characters. As the players don't know the track for their character, they don't know which item they will get and which ones will remain in the wish state.

I had to put effort in the system only once, the characters get their wishes fulfilled, and the players still don't know what their characters receive. I'm still waiting for the moment when one item turns up on more than one wish list, though. Maybe we'll even hear some bickering.