How do you estimate XP for this encounter?

[Shin Okada]

In the next adventure, a 11th level adventurers will fight against an evil lord. The lord will be with some strong characters and monsters, and also with a lot of common soldiers.

The Lord .... CR 12 Blackguard
A 10th-level Cleric .... CR 10
2 Spell-Touched Swordwraith .... CR 11 each
24 Guards .... CR 1/2 each
24 Archers .... CR 1/2 each

If I follow the usual rule, 24 guards and 24 archers will give no XP to PCs as their CR is too low. But I think they can still be some kind of threat to PCs. So want to give some amount of XPs for defeating them. How do you estimate XP for this encounter?

Let's describe more about those CR 1/2 people.

Guards and Archers are 1st level warrior made with 15 pt. buy and have relatively good amount of equipment issued by the lords. The guards have str of 14, +5 total melee attack bonus, AC of 18, hp 5, and have Combat Reflex feat (they are the lord's bodyguards). Archers have str of 13, dex of 14, +4 total attack bonus to their bow, AC of 16, hp 4, and have Point Blank shot and Precise shot feats.

I think the guards will never actually hit PC fighters if they fight individually. But for example, if they can totally surround a PC with 8 of them, 7 of them can make aid another action to give +14 bonus to the last one (those are circumstance bonus, so they stack). And he will get another +2 bonus from flanking. As a result, his melee bonus will become +5 +14 +2 = +21. This perfect combination will be unlikely, but they can do simular things. Or, some of them can use aid another action to help the lord (give bonus to attack or AC). Also, they will slow PCs down to reach the main villains.

Archers will not likely to hit fighters, clerics or rogues. But I guess they can still hit the wizard if they can get in the right position. And they WILL be on a higher ground.

 

[coyote6]

I'd probably throw in XP as for an extra creature, probably of CR 7-8ish. Depends on how big an impact the extra warriors have.

If they never hit any PC, and just get toasted in area spells aimed at the big bad guys, or serve to give a Great Cleaving PC extra attacks on the blackguard , I might not give anything out for 'em.

 

[Caliber]

Its really hard to measure the amount of challenge lots of low monsters provide a higher level party.

While there IS strength in numbers, one Whirlwind Attack or Fireball could potentially take out scores of the little guys. Your best bet (and only hope from a Rules standpoint) is simply to eye-ball how challenging the guards and archers are and award XP based on that.

coyote6's suggestion of CR 7-8 is probably a pretty good basis to determine their usefulness.

 

[the Jester]

Hmm.. according to the DMG's EL chart, ten to twelve CR1/2 guys are an EL 7 encounter. I'd give half the xp for a CR 7 creature for every dozen guards- so essentially the party will get the xp for two full CR7 monsters from fighting 48 CR1/2 creatures.

However, I would be careful- if they don't do anything useful for the baddies, I'd say they aren't worth that much. As Caliber pointed out, they're area of effect fodder.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

1 CR 12 +
1 CR 10 +
2 CR 11 +
48 CR 1/2
--------------

Geez. What kind of ECL does that come out to...?!

 

[bret]

Rough guess would be CR14-15.

A group of four creatures, average CR11. I think that comes out to CR13.

Sets of guards and archers, basically they are about as challenging as bad terrain. If you play them really well, they will slow the characters down for a round or so.

I'm sure others can find better ways to use these people. I'm not familiar with the main bad guys powers and don't feel like looking them up.

The mook guards can form a defensive line two ranks deep. The second rank readies an action to attack anyone trying to get past. If the cleric is near them a Prayer could help.

Put the mook archers in small groups, probably 4 groups of six, shooting from moderately protected areas such as a balcony. Give them partial cover.

This would not by itself be a problem. In combination with the other creatures, it is a pretty good distraction. Worthy of at least one bump if not two.

 

[Hygric]

Why not use an ad-hoc xp adjustment for a slightly more difficult encounter? Say about +10% due to the plebes.

That would make for 13,750 xp from big bad guys with the plebes counting for 1,375 xp as "extenuating circumstances".

 

[shilsen]

1 CR 12 +
1 CR 10 +
2 CR 11 +
48 CR 1/2
--------------

Geez. What kind of ECL does that come out to...?!

It's EL (Encounter Level). ECL is for working out how powerful a non-standard PC race is, e.g. aasimar are a +1 ECL race.

The EL for just the 4 major creatures is 15. I wouldn't even count the CR1/2 guys myself.

 

[Stalker0]

I'd go with the eyeball estimate.

I mean, while guards in numbers like that will get swamed by fireballs and the like, they can still do things like stop a fighter from going past (trying to stand in his way and grapple him, force an overun to keep by), to grappling the mage (enough guards and this could be tricky). And with all those archers, someones bound to get a hit in their somewhere's.

Or better yet, if those guards starting aiding the blackguard, you could see some nasty power attacks, and a damn nice AC.

 

[Shin Okada]

I'd go with the eyeball estimate.
Or better yet, if those guards starting aiding the blackguard, you could see some nasty power attacks, and a damn nice AC.

Good Idea! The Blackguard can either make Power Attack or Sunder! He is a rich lord and thus have very good magic sword. Now finally, a Blackguard can crush PCs weapons!