D&D General How do YOU flesh out a chaotic society?

[Redwizard007]

Living in a modern 1st world country, I have some difficulty conceptualizing a truly chaotic society. That's not to say it is impossible, but I find that my Orcs, Gnolls, Bugbears, etc tend to feel too similar. How do you make them feel different? What sources do you pull inspiration from? What are some examples of fiction or world building that I can see of chaotic societies done well? Do you have any success stories?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

First off, I usually prefer to think of characters exhibiting alignments to different degrees (from mildly aligned to strongly aligned), so even a Chaotic society might not be strongly Chaos-aligned. Second, I prefer to define Law as prioritizing the removal of uncertainty, while Chaos is against limitations in general and is less concerned with uncertainty.

With that quick, personal definition out of the way, I'd generally say that a Chaotic society is one with little to no codified rules. In a Good or Good-leaning society, those rules that do exist are enforced by popular consensus rather than an authoritative body. In an Evil or Evil-leaning society, those rules are enforced by threat of violence from whoever has managed to intimidate others into submission.

Wikipedia has a list of articles related to former and current anarchist communities that could be good for reference: List of Anarchist Communities

I'll also add the caveat that I'm more selective when assigning alignments to characters, societies, or whatever. A society having plenty of laws doesn't necessarily make it a Lawful society; what matters is if the people in power and the public at large believe in and follow the laws without corruption or favoritism (basically, a Lawful society would be one in which bureaucracy actually functions the way it was intended to by no one trying to be above the law).

 

[MichaelSomething]

Use random tables for everything??

 

[Deset Gled]

Living in a modern 1st world country, I have some difficulty conceptualizing a truly chaotic society. That's not to say it is impossible, but I find that my Orcs, Gnolls, Bugbears, etc tend to feel too similar. How do you make them feel different? What sources do you pull inspiration from? What are some examples of fiction or world building that I can see of chaotic societies done well? Do you have any success stories?

Imagine a world where societies are ruled by divine right. The gods grant power to the leaders, who pass their power to their offspring. Families stay in power for generations, maintaining consistent law and order for years at a time. This is a standard fantasy-book lawful society.

Now imagine a world where they deny the power of the gods to rule. Imagine the ruling family changes twice a decade, trading between opposite political factions, each setting their own laws and priorities. Imagine a world where you have one set a local laws, but when you travel for an hour, the details of the law are changed; travel half a day and the laws change more; travel a full day and you have a completely different set of laws you must learn to follow. Imagine a world where the laws guarantee freedom above all else. In a fantasy book, that's a chaotic society.

That second society is the story-book version of America. We elect different leaders every X years. Laws change constantly. There are different laws in different cities, counties, and states. Our constitution guarantees personal freedoms above consistency or community needs. Compared to a standard fantasy setting, we are chaos. You are having trouble conceptualizing a truly chaotic society because, assuming you're American, you're in one.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

To expand on my previous post, here's an example from that Wikipedia list I linked about a group in the 1600's called the Diggers.

Diggers

• The Diggers tried to reform the existing social order with an agrarian lifestyle based on their ideas for the creation of small, rural communities. They were one of a number of nonconformist dissenting groups that emerged around this time.
• The Diggers' beliefs were informed by writings which envisioned an ecological interrelationship between humans and nature, acknowledging the inherent connections between people and their surroundings; "true freedom lies where a man receives his nourishment and preservation, and that is in the use of the earth".

Unfortunately for the Diggers, authorities in England at the time weren't about to respect the independence of their communes.

There were apparently a number of dissenting groups in England at the time that seem interesting, such as the Ranters.

Ranters

• They held that believers are free from all traditional restraints and that sin is a product only of the imagination.
• “...for indeed sin hath its conception only in the imagination; therefore; so long as the act was in God, or nakedly produced by God, it was as holy as God...”
• They denied the authority of the church, of accepted religious practice and of scripture. In fact, they denied the power of any authority in general.
• A leader of the Diggers commented on Ranter principles by denoting them as "a general lack of moral values or restraint in worldly pleasures".

So the Diggers sound like they trend more closely to Chaotic Good, with the Ranters being perhaps more prone to Chaotic Evil.

 

[Dausuul]

IMO, a Chaotic-aligned society would be one that values individual rights over community needs; innovation and change over tradition and stability; diversity over unity. It would be constantly riven by conflict, many people would be left out in the cold, and it would struggle to come together in common purpose. On the other hand, it would be vibrant with innovation and artistry, and it would be quick to adapt and change.

I don't want to go over the "politics" line, so I won't give specific examples, but I think there are quite a few modern nations that meet this description. No need to venture into obscure subcultures or centuries-old societies; examples are all around us. Many of us live in them.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

No need to venture into obscure subcultures or centuries-old societies; examples are all around us. Many of us live in them.

True. I myself decided to cite the Diggers and Ranters because they were societies living in a time period closer to that we assume with fantasy.

In real life, anarchist societies haven't really worked out too well for a number of reasons, including both internal conflict and external pressures from larger states. In a fantasy context, though, beings more conducive to Chaos such as elves might have a better track record with such societies.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

Imagine a world where societies are ruled by divine right. The gods grant power to the leaders, who pass their power to their offspring. Families stay in power for generations, maintaining consistent law and order for years at a time. This is a standard fantasy-book lawful society.

One of the primary architects of bureaucracy, Max Weber, would probably strongly disagree with this.

• In monarchies, where kings, queens, sultans, and emperors ruled, and patriarchies, where a council of elders, wise men, or male heads of extended families ruled, the top leaders typically achieved their positions by virtue of birthright. For example, when the queen died, her oldest son became king, regardless of his intelligence, experience, education, or desire. Likewise, promotion to prominent positions of authority in monarchies and patriarchies was based on who you knew (politics) or who you were (heredity).
• Rather than ruling by virtue of favoritism or personal or family connections, people in a bureaucracy would lead by virtue of their knowledge, expertise, or experience.
• In a bureaucracy, each position or job is part of a chain of command that clarifies who reports to whom throughout the organization. Those higher in the chain of command have the right, if they so choose, to give commands, take action, and make decisions concerning activities occurring anywhere below them in the chain. Unlike in many monarchies or patriarchies, however, those lower in the chain of command are protected by a grievance procedure that gives them the right to appeal the decisions of those in higher positions.
• Because of his strong distaste for favoritism, Weber believed that an organization’s rules and procedures should apply to all the members regardless of their position or status.

Personally, I think most real world societies would trend closer to Neutral in practice because it's really hard to get people on board with actually following the rules laid out. Weber's vision of bureaucracy is a more idealistic version that is free of corruption and favoritism and consistently rewards merit, unlike what is actually seen in the real world. A society whose members actually faithfully adhered to Weber's vision, though, would be a truly Lawful society.

 

[Tonguez]

Democracy is the rule of the Mob, Democracy is Chaotic, like sending farmers to sail a Trireme to Samos in a storm.

Generally though I look to biker gangs for models of how Orcs organise themselves, my Orc society is divided by gender though with the Maternal clans being relatively stable nomadic hunters but male whelps forced into the wilderness where they have to survive by raiding or as mercenaries in the service of Dark Lords.

Gnolls I base on Hyaena clans - fission-fusion societies with nepotistic rank and dominance aggression

Bugbears live in small territorial family groups like gorillas, they will interact with related troops but will be aggressive to (and eat) strangers.

Goblins are individualistic scavengers spawned as carnivorous tadpoles who have no loyalty and will even kill their own mothers

 

[Aging Bard]

I posted a thread similar to this. Let me just leave this comment on how I worked out a specific question I had.

My biggest question was how would you define a Chaotic Good society, which has been canon for elves since 1e? It would have to be very strange, one that a human society could probably not replicate. I decided that elves do not coerce each other to act against their personal code (which is still Good), but rather elves had to be rallied to back causes by sheer force of will and persuasion. Thus, elves appoint champions of high charisma to rally their people to a cause, and send out speakers of high charisma to rally non-elves to the cause if needed. This works for elves because they have high degrees of kinship and trust with other elves, enough to grant each other divergent personal code and trust that Good mediates this.

This also answers the question why elves are canonically "attractive" to many other races. The answer? Because most elves that interact with non-elves are these high-charisma speakers, or their minions. The average elf is average charisma, but most non-elves don't see them!