How do you handle being blinded?

[Fredrik Svanberg]

Invisible creatures get taken off the map, if no PC can see them. The DM will have to keep track of where they move.

A blind character gets helpful advice from the rest of the party to help him find the enemies.

I base these rulings on the fact that a stealthy PC must have total concealment from all enemies and beat the passive perception of all enemies before they can be considered hidden from any of them - presumably because the monsters shout out warnings to each other. If monsters can warn each other of hidden enemies, so can PCs.

 

[SlyFlourish]

The -5 is enough for me. If they make a stealth check, they can truly disappear but 99% of the time, it's just a -5 to hit.

 

[OchreJelly]

-5 is definitely no small penalty. I'm satisfied with it modeling that you know the general area of the target, but not the exact spot. In a game of abstracts you have to make some concessions. This issue, to me, feels akin to not modeling where stray missiles go.

If anyone wants to make it stiffer, I would suggest that blindness also incurs the slowed condition, and the attack penalty is an addition -1 for each square beyond 5 (basically -1 per square away, minimum -5).

 

[cdrcjsn]

Just to be clear, is everyone aware of the changes to stealth/perception?

i.e. the rules regarding stealth/perception in the PHB1 is outdated. Errata changed a lot of things (you can download it from the wotc site or look at the back of PHB2).

Basically, you're aware of where everyone is on the battlemap, even if you're blind or they're invisible unless they make a successful stealth check. The only advantage they get from you (other than the -5 to hit) is the ease by which they can make a stealth check.

If they successfully used stealth, you can try to find them with an active perception check as a minor action.

Keep in mind that perception involves more than just sight. The -5 to attack their square is penalty enough without adding more complications (and slowing down the game).

 

[Flipguarder]

Which is my exact problem. A level 1 pc with an 8 in wisdom, perception untrained and no special training on the subject can immediately determine exactly what 5 X 5 square an enemy is in from 100 feet away after the enemy has been invisible for 2 minutes.

That's just okay with everyone else?

 

[Caliber]

Which is my exact problem. A level 1 pc with an 8 in wisdom, perception untrained and no special training on the subject can immediately determine exactly what 5 X 5 square an enemy is in from 100 feet away after the enemy has been invisible for 2 minutes.

That's just okay with everyone else?

Maybe I missed something here but this doesn't make sense to me.

Are you trying to apply the idea of Take 20 here?

 

[Flipguarder]

No, just that someone with no training or special ability at all can instantly "see" an invisible person.

 

[Caliber]

No, just that someone with no training or special ability at all can instantly "see" an invisible person.

As a move action an enemy can make a Stealth check vs a Blinded foe; if they beat his Passive Perception they can't be seen. Remember he gets a -10 to this check ... it should be easy to beat, even for untrained Stealthers.

 

[Flipguarder]

Im not trying to be unreasonable but how is it anymore complicated for the person trying to spot an invisible person being the one forced to make a check, rather than the burden being on the invisible person.

again I REALLY think its idiotic that spotting the 5 X 5 square an invisible person is in while he is not actively attempting to be "silent" is instant and automatically successful.

 

[Caliber]

Im not trying to be unreasonable but how is it anymore complicated for the person trying to spot an invisible person being the one forced to make a check, rather than the burden being on the invisible person.

again I REALLY think its idiotic that spotting the 5 X 5 square an invisible person is in while he is not actively attempting to be "silent" is instant and automatically successful.

I guess the idea is that you can generally guess well enough where a person is, unless they are trying to conceal their presence from you. They could be talking to allies, shouting battle cries, taunting their opponents, or just be generally noisy (armor, shield, sword, spells, etc ...)

I think the main reason to not force Perception checks on the blind guy is that Perception checks require a Minor action, and it seems crippling to force a Blinded character to potentially use up all his actions (-10 to Perception, remember) attempting to figure out where any targets are. If you ruled Perception to a Free Action while Blind, I wouldn't really have an issue with switching who rolls around. (Hopefully I don't get struck down for talking about hourse rules in the rules forum. )