D&D 5E How do you handle insight?

5ekyu

Hero
Because I had people like you. DM "as you rattle the latch you are poison" You, "What I never said I was touching it! And I have gloves on".
So DM ", As you rattle the latch a small needle pokes thru your glove," You," My gloves are quarter of an inch thick."
So DM," As you examine the latch you trigger a pressure plate a cloud of gas..." You, "What. I said I always hold my breath while checking for door traps. And how much weight triggers the trap. Plus I have on a full helm and mask on my nose and mouth".
So DM,"Charlaquin this is a freaking game. You rolled dice. You failed. Now I can spend the next 5 minutes coming up with FICTIONAL reason on what happen. Or you can accept the fact OCCASIONALLY the MECHANICIS derived and create the fiction."
So what words could I use when you FAILED a roll to make you happy.
Yeah, there have been players since the start who saw some flavor of the game being them vs GM. So, "winning" was seen as "winning at the player-GM" level. Anything to get around or prevent actual mechanics from applying was the target.

When this applied to enemies getting dead, it most often showed up as trying to find any case in the rules where you could get around HP and AC. Was there ever any gap not covered for what happens when? Dagger to throat, dropping large objects, "chokeholds" - any reason to take it from character and mechanics vs character and mechanics to "what can I argue the GM unto?"

Now, obviously, back in the day, there were many more gaps in the rules so there was a lot more "resolution through GM judgement call" in various aspects of the game.

I think I am supposed to say "but its just a playstyle and all are fine" but really, my fondest memories are not the SOPs and the "but my..." drives to turn the resolutions to the GM call you wanted through arguing.

My fondest memories of "success" are cases where the choices led to favorable resolutions within the mechanics - whole thing coming together, not bypassing things to GM calls it.
 

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Beleriphon

Totally Awesome Pirate Brain
I would still call my way of doing things playing a game, but I’m glad we’ve reached an understanding.

I think its more gamifying a story versus storyfying a game perspective. You like the story part to make sense first, and have game elements follow from that. Jasper likes the game elements to come first and makes up a story to justify them (from what I'm reading, please correct me if I'm wrong). Neither is right or wrong, but its hard to do both at the same time.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I think its more gamifying a story versus storyfying a game perspective. You like the story part to make sense first, and have game elements follow from that. Jasper likes the game elements to come first and makes up a story to justify them (from what I'm reading, please correct me if I'm wrong). Neither is right or wrong, but its hard to do both at the same time.
This isn’t the way I would phrase it, but it’s close enough and it’s not really worth arguing.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
Because I had people like you. DM "as you rattle the latch you are poison" You, "What I never said I was touching it! And I have gloves on".
So DM ", As you rattle the latch a small needle pokes thru your glove," You," My gloves are quarter of an inch thick."
So DM," As you examine the latch you trigger a pressure plate a cloud of gas..." You, "What. I said I always hold my breath while checking for door traps. And how much weight triggers the trap. Plus I have on a full helm and mask on my nose and mouth".
So DM,"Charlaquin this is a freaking game. You rolled dice. You failed. Now I can spend the next 5 minutes coming up with FICTIONAL reason on what happen. Or you can accept the fact OCCASIONALLY the MECHANICIS derived and create the fiction."
So what words could I use when you FAILED a roll to make you happy.

Another fine example of the "Goal and approach could never work in practice because it's not jerk-proof, and you might get jerks at your table" argument.

/sigh
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
Another fine example of the "Goal and approach could never work in practice because it's not jerk-proof, and you might get jerks at your table" argument.

/sigh

Yup. Needs a pithy name, it shows up so often. Argument from jerkdom? Jerk hominin? What a-jerk-ism? Jerk policing? Ceterus Jerkus?
 



jasper

Rotten DM
….
So DM ", As you rattle the latch a small needle pokes thru your glove," You," My gloves are quarter of an inch thick."
So DM," As you examine the latch you trigger a pressure plate a cloud of gas..." You, "What. I said I always hold my breath while checking for door traps. And how muc………..
Another fine example of the "Goal and approach could never work in practice because it's not jerk-proof, and you might get jerks at your table" argument.

/sigh
jasper sticks on willy Wonka's top hat. "Wrong Sir! Wrong! You are exactly 111% wrong." Because it was not an argument. It was just a rephrasing of real life. I did have a lot of jerks at my table. The exact conversation did not take place. But I had very similar conversations. Now IF you never had a jerk at your table, let me send you $2 and SASE so you can buy me some lottery tickets.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
jasper sticks on willy Wonka's top hat. "Wrong Sir! Wrong! You are exactly 111% wrong." Because it was not an argument. It was just a rephrasing of real life. I did have a lot of jerks at my table. The exact conversation did not take place. But I had very similar conversations. Now IF you never had a jerk at your table, let me send you $2 and SASE so you can buy me some lottery tickets.

Huh?

Never once have I said there are no jerks at the table. What I say repeatedly is that jerk-proof rules are not the way to deal with it.
 


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