How do you imprison a dragon that can polymorph?

[Errant]

I'm preparing a adventure that revolves around an adult red dragon blackmailing a young adult silver dragon by threatening his captured mate (another young adult silver dragon).

Since silver dragons can polymorph, is there any way to keep one locked up short of throwing her in a cave & dropping a huge rock over the entrance (& hope she doesn't polymorph into something that can burrow)?

 

[Thanee]

Use a creature, that can drain attributes and drain his strength down to zero, so he can't move, or his wisdom/intelligence/charisma, so he's unconscious.

That's what we did (with an item), when we had to imprison a doppelganger!

Bye
Thanee

 

[hong]

Some sort of permanent antimagic field comes to mind. Maybe hire some beholders to keep watch on her at all times.

The REAL answer, IMO, is not to write adventures that depend on these artificial restraints on characters (PC or NPC). Would you write an adventure that assumed a PC was going to be captured at one point? Probably not; not only because players don't like having their characters being caught, but also because high-level characters have lots of options. Artificially limiting these options makes for a contrived feel. That goes for PCs and NPCs both.

Perhaps you should rethink the plot hook so that it doesn't depend on a dragon being held captive. Maybe the red has captured the silvers' eggs (a device used in BG2), or is holding a village hostage. This sidesteps the problem you mention; the silvers can still use all their powers, but there may be unpleasant consequences if they do so.

 

[Ferret]

How about the spell imprisonment?

 

[KarinsDad]

The REAL answer, IMO, is not to write adventures that depend on these artificial restraints on characters (PC or NPC). Would you write an adventure that assumed a PC was going to be captured at one point? Probably not; not only because players don't like having their characters being caught, but also because high-level characters have lots of options. Artificially limiting these options makes for a contrived feel. That goes for PCs and NPCs both.

I think this is poor advice.

The story should be what is important, not the limited spells and capabilities in the game. The only reason it feels artificial is that there is no 6th level Prevent Polymorphing spell in the book. If there was such a spell, then the question would probably have never been asked.

One could have an important Mayor in a city whose powerful Wizard sister was captured and I doubt most people would say that no, you should not have a story line where a powerful NPC is captured.

The only difference between these two scenarios is that it is easier to think of ways to prevent a powerful Wizard from casting spells than it is preventing a powerful Dragon from using an innate ability.

Several solutions come to mind:

1) Dragons have been around a long time. Just like people have ways to imprison other people, even powerful Wizards, Dragons would have developed a spell to imprison their enemy dragons as well. So, you are the GM, make one up. You do not even have to fill in the details, just do it.

2) Maybe there is an inactive volcano or something in the world where Dragon Magic does not work. Drop an unconscious Dragon into it and they are weak as a kitten, cannot Fly, cannot Polymorph, cannot Burrow, cannot Climb, etc.

But, do not limit your thinking to the spells available in the book. It does not have to be a spell. Or, it could be a spell or item which does not exist, but you can have it exist in your campaign. You are the GM. Bam. Dragon captured and imprisoned. You really do not even have to say how the other Dragon did it.

 

[Voldrath]

How about the spell imprisonment?

Adult reds have a caster level of 7. I belive imprisonment is a bit beyond it's capability. I was thinking feeblemind but i don't recall if it's a 4th or 5th lvl spell.

 

[hong]

The story should be what is important, not the limited spells and capabilities in the game. The only reason it feels artificial is that there is no 6th level Prevent Polymorphing spell in the book. If there was such a spell, then the question would probably have never been asked.

Perhaps, but there point remains that there is no such spell. Even if there was, high level characters (and dragons) have lots of other abilities that they could use to escape confinement. Is it really feasible to remove them all?

I'm not saying that the storyline isn't important. I'm saying that the plot devices you use to advance that storyline should be chosen, bearing in mind what powerful characters can do. This is basically the same advice as what's in the DMG itself on running high-level campaigns.

One could have an important Mayor in a city whose powerful Wizard sister was captured and I doubt most people would say that no, you should not have a story line where a powerful NPC is captured.

Note that I'm not referring to "power" in terms of social standing or place in a hierarchy. I'm referring to power in smackdown terms -- the stuff that high-level characters have, even if they may be outside the social order.

There would be nothing wrong with a mayor whose sister was captured. The mayor's standing in his city doesn't directly affect his ability to handle this situation. However, I think there would be something wrong if that sister was an archmage herself.

But, do not limit your thinking to the spells available in the book. It does not have to be a spell. Or, it could be a spell or item which does not exist, but you can have it exist in your campaign. You are the GM. Bam. Dragon captured and imprisoned. You really do not even have to say how the other Dragon did it.

Naturally. Depending on how willing the group is to gloss over these issues, they may not even come up -- so it doesn't really matter _how_ the dragon gets captured. However, one should consider all eventualities, including the one that the players start asking thorny questions.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I think this is poor advice.

The story should be what is important, not the limited spells and capabilities in the game.

Story is a fine thing, and there's nothing better than a DM that's a good storyteller - except a DM that's not only a good storyteller but also a good DM. The reason we play RPG's is not to experience a great story (that's what reading a book is all about), but to play a character who does things we ourselves won't/couldn't do experience an adventure.

You can write great stories without rendering the players helpless. The "no, your powers just won't work" thing upsets people. They play their character for a long time and gain powers, and they don't like to have those powers stripped off them only because the DM was to stupid to write a better storyline or has thought well about how the charakters are subdued.

An example (one I experienced myself): Some evil bastards (in our case this was a priest of Cyric with his sidekicks) wants to capture the party because they've crossed them one time to many. He sets up a net trap, but knowing that won't hold the andventurers for long, casts a hightened sleep spell on them. The problem's only that the whole party consists of elves and half-elves.
Now you the DM can do two things: either he says "This sleep spell is so great that it even affects elves" or he makes the villains do something else (in our case, the Cleric cast "Blasphemy"). The first thing is the easy way out for the DM, and it usually really pisses the players off (and rightly so): why have some powers if the DM just ignores that? Don't get me wrong: the DM should challenge the players time and again with things where their strongest powers won't count (for example, my Bladesinger's AC is so high that most creatures with CR = his CL have a real hard time to hit him. But since a great deal of that is from dodge bonues, an invisible foe can hit me. So time and again I have to face something I can't see), so the players don't think they're unbeatable. But that shouldn't be accomplished simply by denying them their powers just because "the DM says so!", but it should be reasonable (and not be too often!!!! The party's rogue will start to wonder if he chose the wrong class if you make the campaign combat-orented and use only undead...). Also, every player needs a situation where he can really shine: many closely huddled, but not-so-strong foes for an evoker, someone with low AC for the Fighter with power attack, and so on.

 

[hong]

Dammit KaeYoss, how am I supposed to abuse you if you agree with me?

 

[Sir Hawkeye]

The red could always use a few higher-level scrolls.

One example.
1.He could knock the other dragon unconscious somehow.
2.He could use Polymorph Other to make the other dragon smaller.
3. He could use a Scroll of Wall of Force or even Forcecage(Solid) to trap the other dragon.

Or, a bit sillier, with no scrolls:
1. He knock the other dragon unconscious with subdual damage.
2. He pummels the other dragon with mor subdual damage for 10 minutes, inflicting well over 2000 points of subdual damage. The dragon will be unconscious for a day and a half or so. If he simply spends 5-10 minutes a day pummeling, there's very little chance of the other dragon regaining consciousness.

Note: There HAS to be a rule against what I just described, but I don't recall one.