How do you keep (online) players in the group?

Rechan

Adventurer
I'm having some real trouble lately, and I don't know what to do.

I've been trying to run an Online game. And so far, I've lost four players, possibly a fifth.

I accept that in some cases, RL cropped up and got in the way. In one, the guy sent in his character, we'd set everything up - and then someone at work quit and he had to fill their shift until a replacement was found. Two others had RL issues, and another was a newbie to the Online Gaming environment, and he realized after a session it was just not for him.

So in a sense I do not begrudge the players.

Even so, it's very difficult and frustrating for me. I keep needing to handwave/retcon characters leaving, coming in, then leaving again. It's wreaking havoc on the continuity and pacing of the campaign. Let alone the balancing of encounters and direction that the PCs go - one person has not responded to me in almost a month, no emails, no nothing, and the PCs are ont his person's personal quest.

So far I have 3 reliable, enthusiastic and good players. But that's it. I don't want to give up on the campaign - we're having a great time - but I want more players, and I can't keep them.

I've made posts online for recruitment, but the response has been very low. Apparently my houserules or something scares folks off.

What do I do? How do I get reliable people?
 
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First off, there may be not much you can do. PBP (or online) is not for everyone. I would hazard a guess that it may only attract experienced players, as they have played enough RL D&D to fill in the blanks... imaginatively speaking.

Second, do take a hard look at your house rules. As was debated on in a thread I can't remember where I saw, many players are repelled by restrictions... do you ban many races/classes?

And third, reliable players can be hard to find...period. My group has had a bit of trouble locating a 5th PC who can make it consistently to our games in RL. And I am not even too sure about the 4th player we just welcomed into the group. :)

Anecdotally, I also noticed problems with getting a game going with some of the Google Wave groups I have joined... 0/2 so far. Things start and then they die...

I think online technology for playing PnP games has a ways to go before it really catches on. I have looked into apps like iTable and Maptools but they just aren't "ready" enough for my needs to run a game.

(and if you are playing 4e I might be interested and able to join your group, if you could PM me with a bit more info like what software you use and when you play)
 

Second, do take a hard look at your house rules. As was debated on in a thread I can't remember where I saw, many players are repelled by restrictions... do you ban many races/classes?

...

(and if you are playing 4e I might be interested and able to join your group, if you could PM me with a bit more info like what software you use and when you play)
Actually no - my house rules grant less, not more restrictions, and make pcs more powerful.

Here, I'll show you: all the relevant info is here.
 

Rechan... I will so totally play in your campaign.

Online games are tough. They certainly have benefits; they're convenient for those with a busy schedule or little money and can't deal with travel time each with week. They allow you to do some creative things with maps, artwork, music, etc., with the Internet at your fingertips like that. Online tabletops, if used right, can actually speed up gameplay, allowing you to have more game per session.

But... the hardest part is definitely getting a group together, and keeping it together. For me, as a player, the toughest part is finding a DM! And, on the rare occassions that I do, I often only get one session, if even that, before it falls apart.

Here's some things I've found that help; call it the habits of highly successful online campaigns.

1. Encourage interaction outside of your official play-time. All the online groups I've been with that lasted longer than a week had this in common. We had an online discussion board, an Obsidian Portal, or even just a chain of emails that we used to communicate between sessions. These ranged from "sorry, can't make it next week," messages to in-depth roleplay scenes to us just talking about how cool the last session was. It lets everybody get to know each other better. One of the problems with online games is that everybody feels anonymous, so they don't feel particularly guilty if they just stop coming unnanounced. If you can build relationships with your players, they're more likely to treat you like a real person. Go figure, I know.

2. Play-by-post is death. I've seen you post on the Maptools forums in the past, Rechan, so I don't think this is your particular issue. And it might be different with other systems outside of D&D 4e, I don't know (there's a rich tradition of PbP on the OotS boards, for instance, where 3.5 is generally preferred). But for 4e, play-by-post just murders immersion. Especially in combat, which already runs the danger of taking too long. Can you imagine a 4e game wherein players didn't take just minutes deciding their moves, but days? *shudders at the horror* For 4e, at least, online tabletops like Maptools are definetly the way to go.

3. Be (excessively) courteous. In the online world, where most communication is through text and text alone, it can be easy to misunderstand or misconstrue different messages. Also, since the Internet offers some degree anonymity, people feel like they have license to be a jerk if they've received (or believe they received) jerky treatment in turn.

What does this have to do with your game? Well, let's say, hypothetically, somebody in your game wants to use a Paragon Path printed in Dragon that you personally think is overpowered and/or doesn't fit your setting. The player asks via email if he can use it, and you respond, "No, it's overpowered." Since he can't hear your tone of voice in text, or see your casual, "Sorry, dude" shrug, he might interpret your response as draconian or just snippy and rude. He might get offended, and decide to stop playing. And, boom, suddenly you have a guy who doesn't show up to your sessions anymore.

The better reponse is to say, "Sorry, I think that PP is a little overpowered. What do you like about it? The flavor? The mechanics? Can I help you find something like this, but that won't break the game?" Basically, make your intentions clear at all times, and always explain the reasoning behind your decisions. And finally, listen to your players. I once had a DM who wanted to nerf my Swordmage's Warding class feature. I talked him out of it, and he let me play it as written, and I was really gratefully to him for that.

4. Check in with your players. The best online campaign I ever played in was run by a guy with the handle of Lordsmoothe (or something like that) on the OotS boards. We played on Maptool, with occassional roleplay on the OotS forums themselves. We didn't make it past level three, but we played for a solid month or so together, and we had a great time.

Lordsmoothe was a great DM. He tweaked an awful lot of stuff, but he always told us why he was doing it, explaining his reasoning. Sometimes, he'd even straight-up ask the players: "Is it cool if I use the Obsidian Skill Challenge system from EN World, or do you want to do it by the book?"

I think there's a certain arrogance that comes with online players. These players figure: "Hey, if this DM doesn't run the game I want to play, I can always leave and find a new game. It's a wide, wide Interwebs out there." So, naturally, once a DM starts slamming down the house rules and banning whole books, or starts telling a player to stop distracting from the main plot with all his fluffy roleplaying, or tells the power-gamer that he can't use his overpowered 3rd-party class or race, or whatever he does to ruffle an individual player's feathers... well, that player will be very tempted to leave.

I'm not saying you have to cater to your players' every whim. You just have to be aware that these players are not 'stuck with you', and any argument that relies on the notion that you're the only DM in town is doomed to fall on deaf ears. You still have the authority to say no, to ban disruptive players, to railroad when necessary, and generally do what you have to do.

I'm just saying... do it nicely. Oh, and most important of all...

5. Be a good DM. Just do your job, and do it well. Make cool plots and interesting encounters. You might lose some players, but the good players, the loyal ones, will stick with you and help you recruit more. It'll get easier as you go along. Many campaigns fall apart at level 1. The fact that you've gotten even a few sessions under your belt speaks volumes about your skill as a DM.

Keep in mind that when you're starting an online campaign, you're effectively scooping up six random people, putting them in a room together, and expecting them to get along and have fun. Unsurprisingly, this doesn't always work out. If you lose a player or two, but still have four people in that room having a good time, I'd call that a win.

Like I said, if you do your job, word will travel, and your players will be invested enough to help you find replacements. You'll find it easier and easier to replace lost players (see first sentence of this post), and then eventually not necessary at all.
 
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Well, for one thing, you need to loosen up a bit on your requirements.

I've seen your posts on RPTools and the custom rules and requirements are an immediate turn-off.

If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that keeping house-rules and custom changes to a minimum is the best strategy. Not everyone agrees on what is and isn't a good change, so keeping as much as possible to the base rules gives everyone a common ground to work from.

I only have a couple of minor house rule changes to my games and even that has turned people away from it.
 

Well, for one thing, you need to loosen up a bit on your requirements.
What requirements?

Aside from showing up on time and posting on the game's forum between sessions, and having a Heroic character, I don't have any requirements.
 
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I play a lot of Yahoo-based games, and I also have a lot of trouble with people leaving either overtly or covertly. Some of the reasons are:

1: Restrictions Restrictions are a problem, as I have had as I do not allow all 4E products ever printed. One guy asked to play an assassin, and quit immediately when I said no.

2: The Perfect Game It seems to me that many online players do not have any stickwithitness in them. They join, look around, but if the game is not to their taste, they just bail immediately. Happens in RL, but a lot easier in the online world.

3: Maptools, etc This adds another level of complexity to a game. I like Yahoogroups (and pbp less) because I can post whenever I have the time. Morning, night etc, does not matter, and I typically post from 5-6 different computers during the week as I work at various schools) That is a major plus point, and something I cannot do with real-time play like Maptools.

Unfortunatley, I have no suggestions, but keep looking for people and keep running a good game.
 


Rechan, I totally feel your pain.

When I started playing over OpenRPG back in about 2003, in the first two years, I went through just shy of ONE HUNDRED players between campaigns run on two days - note, I was the DM for only one of them, so, it wasn't just me. At least I hope not. :p

What I've done is become a complete jerk when advertising for players. If they make it through the hoops I chuck in the way for joining the group, they've likely got the bloodymindedness to stick with an online game.

Start with your initial advertisement. Be explicit. Don't just say, "Experienced DM looking for X 4e D&D players on Day Y at Time Z" Be a dick.

Try something like:

A sample VTT Ad said:
My name is Hussar. I've been playing over virtual tabletops for a number of years and I have discovered that there are a great many players who will readily agree to play in a game, waste my time creating a character, show up for one session, then piss off into the darkness of the 'Net.

I refuse to waste my time anymore. I will be running a game in X system at ((specified time)). I expect the following from players:

1. Players will arrive on time. Being late wastes everyone's time and is unacceptable. If you are unable to attend, I expect 24 hours notice. Being more than 15 minutes late will count as being absent without notice will be considered absent. Three unexplained absences and you will no longer be welcome at the game.

2. Players will participate on the forums. I do not expect great works of poetry, but, I do expect players to check the forums at least once per week between sessions and participate in play between sessions.

3. Players will make an effort to learn the rules of the game and use the tools of the virtual tabletop. I have provided sample macros for the system ((or in the case of maptools - sample Tokens)). I expect these to be used and kept up to date. Nothing is more frustrating to me than to have a player excuse himself for whatever reason, but his character is completely unplayable because he could not spend ten minutes updating his character sheet.

As a player, you can expect the following from me:

1. I will be prepared for sessions. I will not show up with nothing and simply throw roadblocks in your way to make up the time of the session.

2. I will actively participate in the forums.

3. I will provide a clear over view of the campaign and what you can expect in the campaign. ((Usually that's done in an attachment to this ad))

4. I will not blow off sessions without notice. If I am unable to run a game a given week, you can expect notice probably more than a week in advance, barring major catastrophes.

If you think that you can accept these points, then you are more than welcome at my table. I run a fairly serious game and I expect the players to be fairly serious as well. Not that there is no humour, I mean serious in that I spend a fair amount of my free time providing a game, and I expect the basic courtesy listed above.

That's an example. You get the idea. That generally limits the number of responses I get to those who are reasonably serious. Since I did this, we've managed to be very stable. There are three of us that have been together for about four years, one who joined us about a year and a half ago and my newest player has been with us for about six months.

For some very bizarre reason, we can never keep a hold of the fifth player. It's very strange. The fifth seat always drops out for all sorts of reasons. Very weird.
 


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