How do you role getting new spells?

[gaudigabriels]

Hi, I don't know if I'm over-analyzing this but, how do wizards learn new spells?.

It's kind of odd that the wizards gain a level a just like that a new spell pops up in their heads.

they need no training, they just learn how to use it, it's effects, the range, etc.

Its ok for a videogame, but for a D&D where you are roleplaying it's kind of weird.

what are your thoughts about it?

 

[Corathon]

I don't know the 3E answer.

IMC, people are usually trained to gain a new level, and the new spell is taught by the trainer.

 

[Alan Shutko]

My campaign is like Corathon: Wizards have some sort of mentor, and learn some spells from that mentor as they advance. After some level (depending on the mentor) they can't get any more spells from that mentor, and need to go seek out a new mentor, a magic school (like the Great School of Magic in Glantri) or find them adventuring.

But in other campaigns, I've seen various ways to handwave it:

• The mage had it in their spellbook all along but only now figured it out or mastered it enough to cast
• Conveniently found the spell in the adventure
• Somehow got it offscreen somewhere

 

[psiphre]

in 3/3.5/pf the two automatic spells is supposed to represent normal magical research that the wizard does as a matter of course during downtime. when those aren't enough (and they never are, for me) you can purchase a scroll of any spell and scribe it into your spellbook for market value. this expends the scroll.

treantking hates the item creation feats (he calls them "selling your feats) but especially in 6e, where the opportunity cost of taking a feat to craft magic items is very low, i think they are a steal. being able to craft wands, scrolls, and potions is ridiculously useful for versatility.

 

[fba827]

i think of it as an abstraction.

During the course of adventuring at level 1 the wizard has some downtime while resting or when otherwise not directly engaged in activities. It is during that time that the wizard is studying, testing magical theories, etc. At level 2 is when he figures out how to stabilize the magical effect to produce what he wants how he wants when he wants. Thus he adds that completed spell recipe to his book. When I'm a wizard player, I 'role play this out' by simply mentioning during downtime that i'm studying my books.

So, it's not so much that it just popped in my wizard's head at level 2 but rather that is when all my 'background studying' finally paid off to produce a recipe for the consistent arcane effect that i desired

 

[Ed_Laprade]

i think of it as an abstraction.

During the course of adventuring at level 1 the wizard has some downtime while resting or when otherwise not directly engaged in activities. It is during that time that the wizard is studying, testing magical theories, etc. At level 2 is when he figures out how to stabilize the magical effect to produce what he wants how he wants when he wants. Thus he adds that completed spell recipe to his book. When I'm a wizard player, I 'role play this out' by simply mentioning during downtime that i'm studying my books.

So, it's not so much that it just popped in my wizard's head at level 2 but rather that is when all my 'background studying' finally paid off to produce a recipe for the consistent arcane effect that i desired

Pretty much this, except that it is usually assumed and rarely mentioned.

 

[Alarian]

After the character has been created, I've never given the player a "free" spell. I.e. no one will ever just give them a spell for reaching a new level, be it mentor or whoever. All spells are found while adventuring in-game in old spell books or on scrolls. If lucky, they might also find a mage somewhere that would be willing to trade spells as well assuming the player has something worth trading and it makes sense (and the die rolls are on his side) for the NPC in question to have the spell. A kindly non-adventuring mage living in town for example would be extremely unlikely to have any type of combat spells, but would have a fair chance of knowing other types of spells.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Hi, I don't know if I'm over-analyzing this but, how do wizards learn new spells?.

It's kind of odd that the wizards gain a level a just like that a new spell pops up in their heads.

they need no training, they just learn how to use it, it's effects, the range, etc.

No, I disagree. I have a few points to make on this:

1) I hate training rules. I understand they were used as a money sink (and some versions of D&D need these) and even as a "balancing" tool, but I never liked them.

If you had a fighter who, in his last level, killed a gorgon by himself, took part in three dungeon raids (one involving him getting hit twice by dragonbreath, failing the first save and making the second), took part in five skirmishes, fought in three duels against opponents with different fighting styles (winning two and narrowly losing the other one) and shut down a bar brawl just by swinging a chair to impress the brawlers, I think it's safe to say that fighter earned the benefits of his level - better THAC0, BAB or attack bonus, and saving throws, for instance.

But no, the silly training rules require him to get schooled by a higher-level fighter, otherwise none of these lessons "stick". He has to spend time learning in non-life-and-death situations and pay gold to a higher-level fighter he might not even be able to find.

It was bad RP and bad meta, IMO, and I'm glad those rules aren't officially supported anymore.

I understand that 2e (the edition I started with) wasn't big on giving out "free" spells past 1st-level. It was a different paradigm. I disagree that had anything to do with game balance though. Randomly determining what spells you can get isn't balancing, and if a spell wasn't balanced properly, denying the wizard the spell without clearly explaining that you're banning or nerfing it is just passive aggressive play. (Worse when NPCs get to abuse the same spell.)

2) The fighter spends time training with weapons during his "off-shifts" (eg extended rests, sleep time, whatever). When the fighter gains a new level and a WP slot comes up, he now has an explanation for why he's proficient in his ranseur.

3) The cleric in this example is trying to learn Mass Death Ward: Giant In the Playground Games

(A bit unusual, since clerics can just pray for new spells. This actually fits the wizard better.) Note that the cleric is (currently) failing. Maybe he needs to gain a level before he can reliably cast it.

4) The wizard spends time developing spells when he's not actively fighting for his life or searching for magic traps. He spends time doing this every night, so unless he's gaining a level every game day it's not unrealistically swift.

It's not easy to come up with an original spell, but a wizard has a good enough understanding of magical theory to create slightly different versions of common spells. (For instance, Nebby the Newby reached 3rd-level, and learns Melf's Acid Arrow. His version is purple, rather than the standard green. Unless the standard is purple, but you get the point.)

Its ok for a videogame, but for a D&D where you are roleplaying it's kind of weird.

This kind of language is kind of insulting.

what are your thoughts about it?

See above.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I've done two things in the past:

1E: You don't learn new spells unless you find them (as scrolls or spell books), or find a wizard to teach you.

3E: The wizard is studying and researching new spells during "down time"; the new spells finally mature enough to be usable about the time a wizard gains a new level. So the new spells are the result of prior, ongoing spell research.

 

[BriarMonkey]

It's all "off stage", such as between sessions/games/adventures; meaning, during the character's down time. (All "training" and learning is assumed to happen during those times.) That is, unless you want to role-play the down time (which we actually do at times).

Of course, if something needs to be handled in game in an active capacity (such as researching something new and needing that Spellcraft roll), then it's not "off stage".