How do you see Darkvision?

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I've always* imagined darkvision as a a false-color (or B&W) distance-based vision system. When using darkvision, the world looks like a really good relief map.

IMCs, you can't read normal ink-on-paper writing (because that would be distinguishing color, which isn't allowed) using darkvision. This also provides a really, really good reason for dwarves to use runes carved in stone for their writing system: to darkvision, the depression of the letters is a different "color." There are also dwarven works of art that take advantage of this, such as great bas-reliefs which change in "color" and tone as the observer moves closer or farther away.

* - Well, okay, "always, since D&D 3.0 came out ..."

 

[William drake]

Darkvision is always something I've had a problem with. First in terms of fluff is there anything besides it being a type of magical site? How do you deal with hiding with darkvision. It seems to kill it on one hand but I aways picture creatures skulking around the underdark. Many of these creatures have darkvision and a bonus to hide. This would seem to be useless to them if there hiding from each other or other creatures in the underdark. (oh there is a race in one of the races books -I forget which- has camouflage that works against darkvision).

On a similar note the plane of shadow is all shades of gray and from my understanding the light is at a constant level. Where does the light come from? Does it create more shadow? If so how do creatures with darkvision which is black/white see the shadow. -I see someone with darkvision looking from a lighted area to an area of darkness seeing the color of lighted area slowly turn to grays the farther into the darkness they look. On the plane of shadow everything would be grays to begin with.. arrgg! So what am I missing here.

Ok, to me. Dark Vision isn't magical...it allows you, like any other nocturnal creature, to see in the dark. To a certain extent. The prob is, bright lights bother you, and should always bother you, your eyes arn't made to go from bright to dark...think of a whild animal who can see in the dark. They live in caves and w/n, and if you were to flash a light in their eyes, they'd prob be pissed and run away to await for the haze to wear off.

The reason why most creatures have hide, when they also have Dark Vision is because many creatures in such places also have sonic hearing, like bats. So moving slowly is also a natural thing. Also, most creatures in caves and w/n are ambush predators...so sneaking is a good thing.

Yes, Camaflauge works against Dark Vision, why, becasue it, just like normal camo, doesn't make it so that they can't be seen, it makes it so that they don't stand out in their surrounding. Ex: I look into a patch of trees, the hunter is there, by my eye just doesn't pick him out amongst the green's and brown's. If you hide in the dark, you are still hiding and using the area's natural materials for cover, so, in a cave, you'd look like a pile of rocks, or a wall of mud or w/e.


I wouldn't say that Dark Vision is black and white *maybe said that way in book, but I've not played it that way.* A human, at night, can still see color, however, it is harder to tell shades and tones as distance and the lack of light effect the eye. Dark Vision, allows simply those limitations to be extended....yet, its not perfect. Just beyond the Dark Vision's reach, the creature or character is just as blind as you. Think of a flash light, you can only see what your shining the light on....what's beyond, is still pitch darkness.

Hope that helps.

*My side notes*

Dark Vision is almost retarded now, its used and given out to too many things. As a background, for creatures in an specific area, thats fine, but if you're above ground...you shouldn't naturaly have it. It wouldn't have just evolved in you. If you have it, you should be covering your eyes when above ground, if not...you should be almost blind. And, when flashed in the face with a light spell, should be like the retnal version of being kicked in the nuts.
Just some thoughts.


Game On

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Darkvision doesn't give enough description to really understand how it works. The only way to see something is to be able to detect emitted or reflected radiation of come kind. The way I envision it working is that beings with Darkvision emit some kind of radiation from their eyes (in the UV range, perhaps) which gets reflected back and detected. The emission is weak such that for most creatures it won't go more than 60 feet. Since it is a line of sight emission, there are no shadows to hide in, but cover works (as opposed to infravision where a warm body behind a cold stone pillar would be noticeable by its radiant heat). Objects closer to the viewer reflect more intensely than distant ones, giving depth perception, and emissions scatter less off of smooth objects than rough ones.

The key to hiding in the Underdark, where Darkvision is common, is to be able to either scatter or absorb the emissions. Since something that could absorb emissions would be able to hide in plain sight in an open space, that seems highly unlikely. Some Underdark creatures with a hide bonus may have skin or hide that scatter the emissions to the point where it becomes difficult to discern the difference between the creature and the background, as long as they are standing near a wall or object with a similar scatter pattern. A creature may be well adapted to a rough granite wall, but be more obvious near a water-smoothed one. Other creatures might be able to adjust their skin or hide in different environments. In an open cavern they would be obvious but perhaps a bit blurred.

I handwave the idea that a creature with Darkvision who is hiding from another creature with Darkvision would be seen by the emissions from his own eyes by saying each being emits a unique radiation which cannot be detected by others.

 

[delericho]

Darkvision is always something I've had a problem with. First in terms of fluff is there anything besides it being a type of magical site? How do you deal with hiding with darkvision.

That's precisely how I see it: it's a fantasy invention that has no analogue in 'real' science. It works as described in the books, and I don't dig any further into it than that. Hiding against darkvision works just as it does against normal sight, except that concealment is somewhat harder to come by.

On a similar note the plane of shadow is all shades of gray and from my understanding the light is at a constant level. Where does the light come from? Does it create more shadow?

Again, it's a fantasy realm. There is no light, and no darkness either - just shadow. There's even solid, liquid and gaseous shadow out there, despite such things not existing in the 'real' world.

Because colour doesn't exist on the Plane of Shadow, I generally rule that darkvision and normal sight are basically the same there.

FWIW, I'm not really a fan of darkvision. I'm inclined to think that most races that have low-light vision should not, and most races with darkvision should have low-light vision instead. It just provides a different flavour that I would prefer. However, I haven't gone so far as to house rule that IMC.

 

[Son_of_Thunder]

I don't, I'm human.

But seriously, my group and I play earlier editions so it's infravison for us.

 

[Stone Dog]

I've always* imagined darkvision as a a false-color (or B&W) distance-based vision system. When using darkvision, the world looks like a really good relief map.

IMCs, you can't read normal ink-on-paper writing (because that would be distinguishing color, which isn't allowed) using darkvision. This also provides a really, really good reason for dwarves to use runes carved in stone for their writing system: to darkvision, the depression of the letters is a different "color." There are also dwarven works of art that take advantage of this, such as great bas-reliefs which change in "color" and tone as the observer moves closer or farther away.

* - Well, okay, "always, since D&D 3.0 came out ..."

Me too. I got the idea from an image of a Mindflayer percieved through Darkvision. It was all texture and no colour.

 

[Klaus]

Ok, to me. Dark Vision isn't magical...it allows you, like any other nocturnal creature, to see in the dark. To a certain extent. The prob is, bright lights bother you, and should always bother you, your eyes arn't made to go from bright to dark...think of a whild animal who can see in the dark. They live in caves and w/n, and if you were to flash a light in their eyes, they'd prob be pissed and run away to await for the haze to wear off.

That's Low-Light Vision + Light Sensitivity/Blindness.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Me too. I got the idea from an image of a Mindflayer percieved through Darkvision. It was all texture and no colour.

Yeah - I *love* that picture.

 

[Tewligan]

No, all the player races just had Infravision (other than humans and halflings). In fact, the usage of Ultravision is astonishingly small. The only uses I can find to it in 1E AD&D are the following -- devils (bone & ice devils) and artifacts (Baba Yaga's Hut, Eye of Vecna, Table I Minor Benign Powers).

Actually, the deep gnomes (svirfneblin) also had ultravision. They became a PC race in Unearthed Arcana, along with a few other bad ideas (drow, I'm lookin' at you...)

 

[Miar]

I do actually remember the whole Infravision / Ultravision thing as I was playing between 84-88 I seem to remember part of the reason for it being dropped was the whole light blindness thing being confusing.. Which would be why the current incarnation of darkvision doesn't have it. I do like the idea of carvings and pictures made using depth. However from the rules it seems regular color would work as long as the shades were different. The underdark book has "darkvision-invisible paint" which is "designed to match the shading or color contrasts" of what it's on. The idea of emitted radiation seems a good one as well. Things just blurring beyond that 60'. That with the infrared-cameras scope link gives me something close to where I want it.. The whole thing as it's set up just feels overly clunky..