How Do You Stop TPKs/Killer GM Habits?

[Kannik]

"Know thy players." As a DM who a) enjoys playing strictly tactical games for fun, and b) runs games for various types of groups, that's been the key for me, to ensure I know the party and the players and to tailor the encounters for them. For those groups who are not into richly layered combats, with intricate tactics and with equally intricately crafted characters, I need to review the party's offensive and defensive capabilities, both from a raw character perspective while also further adjusting based on how well the players will employ them.

I also need to watch out for myself, for I know I have a tendency to "fear" making the encounter too easy and thus boring... which can lead me to ramp things up most unnecessarily.

I also tend to run quite a few premade adventures, so prior to the session I'll compare the opponent's stats to the party's abilities and adjust as needed to find that good balance. (For example, as a baseline I'll aim for the players hitting about 75% of the time, adjusting for 'tankier' or other types of opponents.)

Another trick I use is to ensure every opponent has an ability or two that is really flavourful and unusual (so that they stand out) and that presents a strong tactical advantage (whether that be damage or effects or positioning or whatever). I employ them towards the start of the encounter to bring that flavour to bear and to have the party react. If the characters are doing really well, I may unleash them again, but if the party is struggling I'll hold them off or do a lesser version of them.

And as others have mentioned, playing the opponents with respect to their narrative background is also important, ie, not all of them (unlike us the DM) may be perfect tacticians, or are thinking straight (or at all), or they may have other goals, or be weak in morale, or etc.

As a starting point it might be worthwhile to simply eliminate one or two of the opponents from the premade adventures you're running to see how that effects things. If it seems to right the balance, then it could be the mismatch between DM and player capabilities in the tactical arena (again, not a matter of right/wrong or good/bad, just preferences and experience). From there you could, if you want, start to find the ways to tweak the opponents so that the same number can be in the combat while still providing an appropriate challenge for the party.

 

[kenada]

I'll post the most recent one in spoiler tags below.

Spoiler

The group got reports of unnatural smells coming from the nearby cemetery. They enter the cemetery and see two figures digging up graves. The two claim to be grave diggers and tell the party to keep their distance. The party notices the figures are in an older part of the cemetery - not where new burials are taking place. They also notice an awkward gait and decide to approach, thinking the figures are either graverobbers or perhaps undead feasting on the bodies.
There is some distance between the party and their opponents, about 40 feet. The party continues to approach even though the figures tell them to get lost. The party decides to begin reading weapons/shields and casting spells. Initiative is rolled. The creatures win the initiative and charge at the frontline warrior - a champion (aka paladin) who already has her shield raised. Standing next to the champion is the sorcerer - who had been doing all the talking for the party but decided to approach in tandem with the champion. Monsters quickly overwhelm by focusing attacks on the champion - the sorcerer scurries away and attempt to cast some spells, but they're just not terribly effective against these creatures.
The cleric comes up and becomes new frontline. He's now facing down one opponent while the other is chasing down the sorcerer. Cleric casts heal on the fallen champion, gets a lousy roll and heals to 9 hp. The champion is wounded 1 but is preparing to stand and attack, getting the attention of the creature attacking the sorcerer. The creature turns and hits the champion with a critical hit, instantly dropping him to Dying 3 (one more failed save and it's perma-death).
During this time the party's rogue has been darting in and out of combat, trying to get flanks. He's been whittling down both creatures, but it's not enough. Thinking he can "finish off" one of the creatures, he stays put for an extra attack. He misses, but the creature responds with a critical strike, dropping the rogue. The cleric, overwhelmed by both creatures, now drops.
The sorcerer decides to take an action to see "how close" the creatures are to death. I didn't give exact numbers - but it was 10 hp and 8 hp (out of 55 hp starting, I think). He decides to use his remaining 2 actions to bolt for it - but his legs are short and slow. Still easily within the range of the monsters (who are described as ravenous who don't like letting prey escape), he is within two moves of the creature, who comes up, hits him with a critical. TPK.
If you are familiar with the PF2e encounter math, these were two CR3 creatures against a 4-person level 2 party - with full HP (but down some spells). It is considered a "Severe" encounter, but was presented in the adventure as a regular encounter that is not telegraphed to the party, not a boss fight (in fact 17% of the encounters in this adventure are "Severe"), and is assumed to be a part of a regular adventuring day.

Are you using group initiative for the monsters or individual initiative? The recommendation in the CRB is individual initiative for monsters unless it’s not practical because having all the monsters go at once can be really deadly for the PCs (for those not familiar with PF2). Also, did the champion not use Shield Block to mitigate the damage?

 

[Retreater]

Are you using group initiative for the monsters or individual initiative? The recommendation in the CRB is individual initiative for monsters unless it’s not practical because having all the monsters go at once can be really deadly for the PCs (for those not familiar with PF2). Also, did the champion not use Shield Block to mitigate the damage?

Individual initiative. They both just happened to beat the rest of the party.
Champion didn't use Shield Block because he had used his (glance of redemption)? champion reaction.

 

[Retreater]

To test the encounter, I just played through the same fight with the pregenerated iconics at 2nd level, down some spells and without additional gear. I handedly defeated the monsters with minimal damage to the party in about 3 rounds.
So if I had been trying out the encounters beforehand. It seemed fair to me, but I know in hindsight it was a TPK. I must have a really bad challenge detector.

 

[prabe]

To test the encounter, I just played through the same fight with the pregenerated iconics at 2nd level, down some spells and without additional gear. I handedly defeated the monsters with minimal damage to the party in about 3 rounds.
So if I had been trying out the encounters beforehand. It seemed fair to me, but I know in hindsight it was a TPK. I must have a really bad challenge detector.

Or you just play the tactics much better than your players tend to. I would be inclined to agree with the other folks in this thread who've suggested changing the encounters before they come up, rather than trying to fudge them in play. It'll be more work for you, alas.

 

[kenada]

To test the encounter, I just played through the same fight with the pregenerated iconics at 2nd level, down some spells and without additional gear. I handedly defeated the monsters with minimal damage to the party in about 3 rounds.
So if I had been trying out the encounters beforehand. It seemed fair to me, but I know in hindsight it was a TPK. I must have a really bad challenge detector.

What monsters did the encounter use? People are speculating ghouls, but those are 1st level creatures in PF2. Elite ghasts? Binumirs?

 

[kenada]

Individual initiative. They both just happened to beat the rest of the party.
Champion didn't use Shield Block because he had used his (glance of redemption)? champion reaction.

Ah, shoot. That’s some bad luck.

 

[Maxperson]

Prepublished content is a good start, but it doesn't (and can't) account for your party's composition. It might still be worth checking the AC and damage of the monsters, just to be sure.

That and you aren't obligated to run encounters as written. If he's getting TPKs off of the standard published encounters, remove some of the monsters. If there are 3 trolls and 6 orcs, run 2 trolls and 5 orcs or something.

 

[Retreater]

What monsters did the encounter use? People are speculating ghouls, but those are 1st level creatures in PF2. Elite ghasts? Binumirs?

I think they originated in that specific adventure, but I'll link to the stat block from Archives of Nethys in the spoilers...

Spoiler

Vermlek - Monsters - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database

Vermleks, also called worm demons, manifest from the souls of mortals who desecrated the dead, such as grave robbers or necromancers. These fiends take their violations to a new extreme, using their demonic powers to horrifically core their living victims and don the flesh-husk that remains.<br...

2e.aonprd.com

 

[Retreater]

Or you just play the tactics much better than your players tend to. I would be inclined to agree with the other folks in this thread who've suggested changing the encounters before they come up, rather than trying to fudge them in play. It'll be more work for you, alas.

Yeah, I don't feel like I did it a lot differently than the party actually did. Had Frontline tank guy, rogue darting around doing sneak attacks.
For the difference I had some different spells prepared. I had the cleric cast Bless at the start of the fight. The wizard did a Magic Missile, Burning Hands, and Electric Arc, which helped the damage output slightly.
A lot of the differences came down to die rolls for the monsters not getting Crit after Crit. And then presenting a second target with the cleric coming up to join the Frontline.