How do you tell a fellow player he can't pick a particular feat for his PC?

[Felon]

This thread is kind of interesting though. Has D&D really evolved into a game where players and/or parties HAVE to make combat effective choices with their characters at all times? Having no room for players to take the "flavor" feats is kind of sad and really takes away from the RP side of the RPG. In fact, it suggests that D&D is moving further and further (as feat/spell/power/weapon options get bigger and better) away from being a RPG at all.

Well, the "RP" side of the game is largely unaffected by feat/spell/power/weapon options. These are mechanical elements, and thus only affect the mechanical aspect of the game--which is 90% combat.

The alleged player in question not only took suboptimal feats, but he didn't do anything with them. Didn't get cross-class ranks in Tumble, never tried doing any tumbling. But even if he had, is that role-playing? How does having feats like Acrobatic or Animal Affinity written on a character sheet make someone a better RP'er, or the character more colorful? Is getting a +2 on Jump or Ride checks role-playing?

To strike the best balance, keep the mechanics relevant to mechanical stuff, and keep the intangible elements of a character relevant to role-playing.

 

[Felon]

...so I dragged myself out from under the bags of pancake batter, cut them all open and peed in them, except for one. From that one I took a few bucketfuls of pancake batter, poured them into the gas tank of that idiot's expensive car, and on my way out wrote "I QUIT" in permanent marker on the door of the restaurant.

I dunno, I read the same story, and I didn't quite get it. Nightfall fell down, and when asked if he was injured, he said he wasn't. It seems to me that once you say you're not hurt, the only thing left to do is get up.

 

[Felon]

Simple question, simple answer. You don't. It is not your character. If you started browbeating a player at my game about his or her choice of feats it would not be that player that ended up sitting on the porch.

Well, to play devil's advocate...

If you're playing tug of war, and somebody just stands there without pulling, is it wrong for you to behave as if their choice affected you? If you're in a three-legged race, and your partner won't run, is that his choice that you must respect? And likewise, doesn't D&D require a joint effort to succeed?

 

[Dracorat]

If the player in question started attacking your party when the monsters attacked you, I could sympathize with your example.

But if your partner wanted to run his three legged race with sandals, you might not agree, but it would be his choice in the end. Applying tacks to the underside of the sandals would be just as offensive.

 

[Sejs]

Well, to play devil's advocate...

If you're playing tug of war, and somebody just stands there without pulling, is it wrong for you to behave as if their choice affected you? If you're in a three-legged race, and your partner won't run, is that his choice that you must respect? And likewise, doesn't D&D require a joint effort to succeed?

Perhaps, but that's not the situation at hand at all.

To use the tug-of-war analogy, the wizard in question isn't standing there limp, he's just not bracing his right foot in the way you want him to, but he's still pulling all the same.

 

[Felon]

To use the tug-of-war analogy, the wizard in question isn't standing there limp, he's just not bracing his right foot in the way you want him to, but he's still pulling all the same.

Yes, if you scroll up the page you'll see I had addressed the innocuous nature of that particular example earlier...

The only reason this would be objectionable is if the character is not making a useful contribution to the group. A character isn't prevented from earning his keep just because he expends a couple of feats on frivolous stuff.

My reply was to the remark "Simple question, simple answer: you don't. It is not your character", which seemed rather unilateral in nature, not simply in regards to this example.

 

[Sejs]

Yes, if you scroll up the page you'll see I had addressed the innocuous nature of that particular example earlier...

Bah. Humbug. Reading comprehension is for commies.

My reply was to the remark "Simple question, simple answer: you don't. It is not your character", which seemed rather unilateral in nature, not simply in regards to this example.

*nod* So I saw. Nah, my point was, as I stated, the analogy isn't exactly fitting in regard of the Not Pulling vs Pulling But Not As Hard thing. Aside from that we're reading from the same page, you and I. The guy's still contributing in his role, after all.


The only situation I could see the wizard/feat choice thing being a possible issue would be if he took those feats like Mage Slayer that reduce your effective caster level by 4, such that he wasn't able to even function as a wizard at all. And even then it wouldn't be a matter of ordering the guy to choose something else, you'd just tell him ... you realize you're cutting off your own hands here, right?

 

[Plane Sailing]

This thread has generated a fair amount of bad feeling for various reasons, so I'm closing it down now.