How do you tell a fellow player he can't pick a particular feat for his PC?

[Driddle]

When this lackluster wizard can't hold up his share of the responsibility in the Field / Dungeon, the whole party suffers. ... throwing away feats is tantamount to trying to trying to kill your own party.

Glad you agree!
So how do you handle it?

 

[Driddle]

I agree, it's a bad idea. And the solution is to explain one's position to the "problem player," and suggest otherwise. But no player has the right to demand or disallow in a situation like this.

??? Why the heck not? Us against him -- we win.

 

[Mouseferatu]

??? Why the heck not? Us against him -- we win.

Simple human dynamics and courtesy. You have no authority over him, you have no right to give him orders.

You can ask him to change, or you can demand he change, and both have the exact same weight: Only what he chooses to give them. You have the option of kicking him out, of course, but again, that's true regardless of which way you approach this.

There's nothing at all you can do to force him to change, though, and orders are far more likely to result in resentment than a less confrontational approach.

So no, you don't "win." Either he agrees, or he gets booted, or you back down. All three of these are just as likely with the polite approach as with the rude one. And frankly, if he only agrees because you threatened to boot him from the group, do you really expect the gaming experience with him to be any good afterward?

 

[TheEvil]

Glad you agree!
So how do you handle it?

I have yet to see any good come of trying to tell someone how to play their character. Is throwing away feats his only crime, or is he wasting spell selection as well? Even as the GM, it is best not to object to streneously to a player's selection choices. Just ask them why they are taking what they are taking. Be respectful. Then drop it. If they really can't pull their own weight (a very unusual circumstance), then cease protecting the character and let natural selection take it's course. HOWEVER. If the character is at least covering the role and the player is having fun without making others miserable, then drop it.

 

[TheEvil]

??? Why the heck not? Us against him -- we win.

Take a deep breath and repeat after me: It's only a game.

 

[Nightfall]

This is kind of like the situation I was in...sort of. An RL situation but something I feel relates well with this kind of thing.

In my previous employment as a DMO (an all encompassing job of being a dishwasher, a buser, and also unloading/manual laborer) for IHOP (International House of Pancakes for you people that don't know this), I was tasked with unloading a truck. This was on a Friday when typically you get lots of people. Now mind you I wasn't doing this alone but still, it was near when we get a lot of the post breakfast/pre-lunch/brunch crowd. Anyway long story short, I get to the last dry good part of the refrigetorated truck. (Actually it was the ONLY thing left on that section of the truck.) That being the 9 40 LB bags of pancake batter we had to unload. So naturally we got a dolly, loaded it up, and I was at the lip of the truck (going to walk down a very steep walkway/ramp), when I slipped, fell on my behind and had the dolly fall back onto me. Took me 5-10 seconds to get my mind in working order but then I yelled to my fellow "Get the Manager!" So in runs in my co-worker (This is a newly open IHOP restarant btw), who then runs into the chief of ops son (He drives a foreign car btw. This should indicate to you how invested he is in this company or at least pretends to be.)
Anyway so he grabs my coworker, tells him "Bus tables!" He like "No! Injury!" He likes "I don't care, this is important." My coworker "No you don't understand!" So he comes out, he looks at me, looks at the dolly and the truck and asks me "Are you hurt." I saw (stupidly as it turns out) "No" (even though I would ache a lot later on.) He says "Fine, get up." And walks away.

It's kind of like that, Driddle. You're looking at one thing, he's looking at something else. Stupidly as it turns out.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

The players I DM for would eventually kick the character from the party if they were unable to carry the load in battle due to horrid character choices. Of course first they would probably ask him what heck he was thinking taking such lame options in the first place, then make fun of the character, then the player. IF they are playing the neutral/evil characters they may arrange to have the horrible character meet a foul end. This is all assumeing that such a charcter is acutally causing mishap for the other members with his weakness. If he is just lame but not really doing any damage to the group they would just make fun of him.

I think this thread is kind of a setup though to make a point based off what was said in the other thread you had a few days ago...

 

[Nightfall]

*still think his RL story has a point linking it to what Driddle is doing...* Some how.

 

[Thurbane]

You don't.

You can certainly tell him you think it's a bad idea, and suggest he do otherwise. But the only person at the table with the right to disallow options is the DM, and even that right is subject to the Player's Veto (i.e. the right to walk away from the table).

Agreed. You can't tell him not to take the feat, but you can freely discuss with him the disadvantages of such feats for his character, make sure he properly understands how the feats in question work, and even suggest feats that would be more useful for his character.

 

[xnrdcorex]

It is obvious you should not tell him what to do. Just explain why certain feats are better for wizards and why. If he says he wants acrobatic becaase he wants to be acrobatic, then he's roleplaying and leave it alone. If he dies becuase of bad feat choices then he'll know you were right, if he's fine and having fun then it didn't matter which feats he took.

Some people like to optimize and be real crunchy, some people like to make fluffy role-playing flavored characters. If that's his play style then so be it. If he's makeing mistakes becaase he's new, then you should give him advice, but not be overbearing or elitest about it.

Try to avoid makeing your fellow players feel dumb or wrong because it leads to conflict at the table, and noone has fun when their friends make them feel bad.