How Do You Tell a Group: "Maybe This Isn't for Us?"

[Retreater]

To start with, I'm the GM in this situation.

My group wanted to play a mystery/story-based game with a different flavor of the usual D&D campaign we've been playing for the past two years. We started a big mystery/political intrigue campaign using a fairly complex system ("The Enemy Within" using WFRP 4e).

So we had a fair bit of trouble getting the system to work on Roll20 and moved to Foundry and have been adjusting to that AI. Then we had trouble making characters they enjoyed playing, and had to use two of our short sessions (around 2 hours each) to make new characters. And then the players complained that their characters were poor (which is sort of built-in to the setting), and that there's not a lot of combat (which is built into the system), and that there's a confusing mystery and they don't know how to proceed (which is the point of the adventure).

At the end of each session, after they complain about their frustration with the above issues, I reinforce these points: I am there to make sure all of us have fun. The most important thing is that we all have a good time. If they are not having fun, then we can alter the game or even play something different.

I can tell that they aren't motivated when we play. If they are going to take an action, I have to be the one to suggest it, otherwise they are just sort of lost or indecisive. They also don't remember key details from session-to-session, showing me that they aren't invested enough in the mystery to take notes.

I can't help but think we'd be having a better time doing something else. In this case, would you put your foot down and say you want to run another game once we get to a good stopping point (probably in 1 or 2 sessions anyway)? Would you let them keep playing it this way, being frustrated? Would you try to do even less hand-holding and just let them fail?

 

[BookTenTiger]

It sounds like this would be a good opportunity for a Session 0 Part 2. As a group, you can review what your goals were with switching to this campaign, talk honestly about if the campaign is meeting those goals, and decide on next steps.

In my long-running group, we did this a number of times, and it always led to good results, like:

* Changing our urban fantasy / sci fi game to a Guardians of the Galaxy style space adventure...

* Wrapping up said campaign early with a final Fiasco game...

* Shifting our 5e D&D game to end at Level 10 instead of 20...

* Changing a major plot element of the 5e game to avoid adding racism to the game...

All in all, having occasional sessions devoting to the direction of the campaign really helped our group have consistent fun.

 

[payn]

At the end of each session, after they complain about their frustration with the above issues, I reinforce these points: I am there to make sure all of us have fun. The most important thing is that we all have a good time. If they are not having fun, then we can alter the game or even play something different.

Thats a tough cycle to be in. If the game never clicks and starts working, you gotta wonder if its worth going against the stream?

I can tell that they aren't motivated when we play. If they are going to take an action, I have to be the one to suggest it, otherwise they are just sort of lost or indecisive. They also don't remember key details from session-to-session, showing me that they aren't invested enough in the mystery to take notes.

This sounds like the group is pretty casual. The type that likes having a character sheet with stuff that tells them what to do. That or they dont like being proactive and prefer to be reactive. Putting a lot of decisions and agency in their hands sounds like a tough proposition.

I can't help but think we'd be having a better time doing something else. In this case, would you put your foot down and say you want to run another game once we get to a good stopping point (probably in 1 or 2 sessions anyway)? Would you let them keep playing it this way, being frustrated? Would you try to do even less hand-holding and just let them fail?

Are they saying they want to stop? If no, I'd ask directly if they do. Are the complaints growing pains as they branch into the unknown? If yes, Id give them time to move into it. Adapt the game and story as best you can. Might be extra work for you as GM, but the players will appreciate it.

Sometimes, as GM I have an idea for a game I really want to run. I don't always have the right group to run it tho. To find out, I usually start slow and small and work up to something bigger. That way, everybody finds out something about their playstyle and group. When you are ready you can launch the big game. The one shot is very underrated.

Hope that helps.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

In that scenario, I would probably outright ask them "do you want to keep doing this campaign?" I'd iterate that my feelings aren't aren't going to be hurt if they say no.

Whatever I ran next would have to open with a bang, with a heck of hook. Because I need to build the momentum up from negative.

Mystery/Investigative adventures are amongst the hardest to run and sometimes to play in, in my experience. It's really easy for the game to just start spinning wheels or hare off on a complete red herring.

 

[Retreater]

@payn I did run a one-shot with pre-generated characters (actually a longer adventure than a one-shot, but it lasted about a month of play). They wanted to continue the system, but I think between character generation and the scope of the campaign they really got overwhelmed. Then they realized "it's really involved to make a character in this system, fighting is very dangerous, so we have to be extremely careful." Which is making them very bored.
So they are at the same time very attached to their characters due to sunk cost fallacy and also not engaged with what's going on because they're bored.

 

[moriantumr]

I dm for a group that loves the idea of investigative/mystery/sandbox games but they are really, really bad at playing them. We played Dark Heresy 2nd edition and finished an intro adventure in the course of two…years. I know now to make the investigative/mystery stuff very straightforward and a fail forward endeavor. They make choices and it changes the story, meaning I have to be willing to bring clues or interactions that can move the story forward to them instead of them following what I have planned.
It sounds like they want to fight and not be poor. Reward that. Give them fights between the investigation. Link it to the plot if you like and put coded messages on the attackers. Introduce a patron that promises money and increased class rank. Have the patron request increasingly terrible things from them that makes them question the purpose or motives. Let the patron betray them and leave them for dead, inspiring their investigation to reap revenge and topple someone who has wronged them, but they cannot do it without proof.

 

[kenada]

I can't help but think we'd be having a better time doing something else. In this case, would you put your foot down and say you want to run another game once we get to a good stopping point (probably in 1 or 2 sessions anyway)? Would you let them keep playing it this way, being frustrated? Would you try to do even less hand-holding and just let them fail?

Is this the same group you ran Age of Ashes for? This story seems similar to that one where your players wanted the game run a certain way that resulted in play that was not fun.

 

[payn]

@payn I did run a one-shot with pre-generated characters (actually a longer adventure than a one-shot, but it lasted about a month of play). They wanted to continue the system, but I think between character generation and the scope of the campaign they really got overwhelmed. Then they realized "it's really involved to make a character in this system, fighting is very dangerous, so we have to be extremely careful." Which is making them very bored.
So they are at the same time very attached to their characters due to sunk cost fallacy and also not engaged with what's going on because they're bored.

I see. I'm not entirely familiar with the system or the campaign you are trying to run. If I was, perhaps Id offer some ways to spice up the game and get y'all out of the funk. However, sometimes people want a fantastic game where getting shot is a minor inconvenience and kicking ass and taking names is the fun. Others, like a very gritty realistic crawl where you gotta be smart and push your luck to get through. Neither is right or wrong, its a taste thing, and maybe y'all really are finding out its not for this group?

 

[Bluenose]

They might be happier with Monster of the Week. Still a mystery game with investigation elements, but it usually ends with a combat situation where the investigators get to fight and defeat the monster. Think an episode of Supernatural, Buffy with the whole season as a campaign with a climactic enemy at the end of it but making appearances in earlier adventures.
The characters are typically quite a bit more straightforward than WFRP ones, which sounds like it might help.

 

[John Dallman]

It does sound as if giving up would be the easy way out.

The things that's difficult with mystery and intrigue is that the players need to understand the setting pretty well. and know what the moving parts are in the society around them. It sounds as if they don't have that and since they're small fry, they're worried if they try to do much they'll get their hard-to-create characters stomped.

A potential answer to that is to build up the characters a bit. Don't worry about the mystery or intrigue for a while. Turn the campaign into slice-of-life, and let them build up businesses and/or status, learning about the setting and having fun just living in the weirdness of the Old World. This will require you to regulate the supply of strangeness, so that it isn't just mundane Urban Slum: the Infection, but nor is it battling the forces of Chaos every week. When the players are confident in their ability to navigate the setting, and know what they can and can't get away with doing, then you start to feed them scraps of the main plot.