How do you tell your GM and friend that he just isn't that good

[Tequila Sunrise]

My question: How do I/we tell him? We're all good friends and don't want to hurt his feelings. And he does design a good dungeon/write a good story.

"Hey man, we really like your campaign. But you know what would make it awesome? Tactically smart monsters. Can we give you a few pointers during battle, until you get a better feel for tactics yourself?" (Or you could insert Lwaxy's idea.)

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Whenever the game comes up in outside-the-game conversation, he believes it's going really well and that everyone is having fun.

We have three other players chomping at the bit to run, but he seriously doesn't understand that no one is having anything resembling fun.

Maybe we should just have everyone except him show up a half hour early and start work on a new game, then when he shows up just tell him that we're moving on.

Bad idea, unless you never want to see him again.

Obviously he's not good at picking up hints, you players haven't dropped any, or both. If you'd rather see him again, your best shot is to just sit him down as a group (whether physically or by group email or whatever) and say "Look, the way you're GMing just isn't working for us. [Insert a few specifics.] We need a change." He sounds like a stubborn guy, so make sure everyone in the group speaks up. (Rather than just sitting there while you do all the talking.)

 

[Dausuul]

I'm not clear on how "higher CRs/more monsters" is not helping. In the immortal words of Xykon, in any battle, there's always a level of force against which no tactics can succeed. Just short of that is a level of force against which you need really good tactics to succeed. If he cranked up the encounter level and it wasn't enough, crank it up some more. Keep cranking until you start to feel the burn. If he's not a tactically-minded guy, D&D has a traditional solution for that, and the solution is MOAR MONSTERS.

As for getting the idea across that you're not having fun... just tell him the truth. Start by complimenting him on his good points as a DM, which you indicate he has a fair number of. Then say that you're finding combat really drags because you're not challenged enough, and that's a big problem in a combat-heavy game.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

Bad idea, unless you never want to see him again.

Obviously he's not good at picking up hints, you players haven't dropped any, or both. If you'd rather see him again, your best shot is to just sit him down as a group (whether physically or by group email or whatever) and say "Look, the way you're GMing just isn't working for us. [Insert a few specifics.] We need a change." He sounds like a stubborn guy, so make sure everyone in the group speaks up. (Rather than just sitting there while you do all the talking.)

Getting my confrontation-phobic group to speak up will take some doing, but this sounds like stable advice. Thanks!

Apologies for the semi-threadjack, Dordledum.

 

[Janx]

So you've tried to help him with his combat skills, and it didn't work. IMO you now have three options: 1) continue as you are, 2) someone else steps and says they want to DM for a while, and 3) stop playing. Telling your friend that he's not a good DM doesn't help in any of these situations, so my advice is not to do it.

this list hardly seems comprehensive or categorically complete.

3 other good ideas have already been given:
4) have a sub step in to run combat
5) change the focus from combat oriented to non-combat (politics, intrigue, theivery, etc)
6) de-optimize the PCs for combat

 

[malkav666]

Firstly, what is fun is all a matter of perspective. Are you sure that your friends idea of great combat is not the players kicking the crap out of everything in their path like super soldiers. That is in fact a playstyle that I have seen be popular. Its not how my long running group plays usually but I have played in groups where this is the case.

If this guy has been with your group for a long time and the combats have traditionally been very hard for the players, then he/she may just being trying to give the group a change of pace.

Assuming you actually find out that he is in fact trying to make it hard and failing at it, then you must find out why. If your gaming group is so munchkined out that you can whip up on stuff way out of your range then you need to be toned down or the CR needs to be crunked up to 10.

If you believe that the DM has no tactical insight and actually runs the monsters in a poor way then try this: After the session is complete pick the combat encounter that you feel went the most poorly and rerun it with the DM playing your toon and YOU running the encounter. You may be able show him a thing or two, and you may learn a thing or two yourself in the process.

I have played RPGs for a long time, and I have found that there aren't a whole lot of bad players/gms from a proficiency stand point, mostly just inexperienced or socially awkward ones. Most of the players I have seen that I would actually call bad usually have bad attitudes, or are just plain mean. Anyone can be taught a thing.

It sounds like your GM may just be doing what he thinks is fun. I find honesty is the best policy. Maybe you should all talk and meet in the middle somewhere.

love,

malkav

 

[TheYeti1775]

Let him know post session when you have an encounter that did come up to par. See if everyone can stick around an extra 30 minutes and show him how you would have handled the encounter in his shoes.

In my group, they turn to me for tactics, another guy for mechanics.
I give my DM a regular review on his encounters and what I would have done differently.
And guess what over time some he has improved on his tactics.

 

[Janx]

Form up everybody in a line.

Call out "Everybody who's a good GM, step forward."
Everybody steps forward.

"Hey, uh, not so fast there Bob..."

 

[MichaelSomething]

Look at it in a good light! Think of it as an opportunity to play those classes/character concepts you never could before because they were too weak! Be the first Swashbuckler/Monk/Samurai/Spellthief party to conquer Undermountain!

 

[Mishihari Lord]

this list hardly seems comprehensive or categorically complete.

3 other good ideas have already been given:
4) have a sub step in to run combat
5) change the focus from combat oriented to non-combat (politics, intrigue, theivery, etc)
6) de-optimize the PCs for combat

I completely covered all of the options I thought worthwhile. I wouldn't consider those listed. To the point though, even considering the other options, there's no good way to tell someone he sucks as a DM, and there's no good reason to do it.