How do you tell your GM and friend that he just isn't that good

[Elf Witch]

I have had to deal with this and it is not easy especially if the person is a friend.

He does not sound like a bad DM not all DMs are good at everything and most of us have some weakness. As a DM I am not as good at running combats as other parts of the game.

I play to my strengths and stick to games that have a lot of story, puzzles and intrigue.

You should not talk to him but I wouldn't use words like bad. You should let him know the positive things he does well and then give him concrete advice on how to fix what he is doing poorly.

Others have given some good advice on things to do to help. What I found helpful was having my more tactically minded players give me advice during the combat. I have slowly gotten better with my tactics.

I would like to add that for DMs who are not as good in combat having players who are and who have designed min/max characters make it very hard for that type of DM. Take a really good at your characters. Maybe stick to core only classes for awhile while he finds his feet.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Open communication is the key here with all the situations in dealing with DMs and/or players. I always toss out my thoughts to my DM(s) and do the same when I'm a DM asking my players for any suggestions, comments, or gripes. We are all human, none of us perfect so constructive criticism makes us all better. You just want to be reasonable and make it known that you aren't trying to be a jerk when you give advice.

I really liked what one of the other posters above said: "Hey your campaign is awesome so far, I/we love (insert what you love here), but what the other guys and I think would make it even more awesome would be to have (insert ideas/advice/constructive criticism)!"

If he responds negatively, just say something like: "We are good friends and have been playing together a long time, I feel that I can tell you these things w/o hurting your feelings because in the end it'll make the game better and more fun for you and for the players."

 

[TarionzCousin]

I strongly suggest letting other people DM for a session or three each. It can be an eye-opener and help everyone get better.

I was running 4E for my group (rotating DM's) and one of the former DM's complained after every session that combat wasn't quite right--it was either too easy or too challenging. He told me that I wasn't using the CR rules correctly and if I just did that it would be perfect. So I let him run a session.

We killed all of his monsters without losing a single hitpoint. He [-]quit[/-] slowed down his complaining after that.

 

[MichaelSomething]

If you want to be particularly cruel, you can tell your DM, "our game is so much fun I want to podcast it on the internet!" Then you put it up and the internet do the job of bashing his DM skills for you

 

[Squire James]

I don't agree with most of the posters here. Don't humiliate him, but DO get into a private conversation and tell him he just isn't that good! I mean, if you can't be honest with him, he's really more "some Joe you know" than "a friend". As a DM, I WANT my players to tell me of my weaknesses, so I can try to correct them!

Letting unspoken displeasure continue will just make things worse later.

 

[Bedrockgames]

There's no threat. As a consequence, the players at the table lose focus. People start to do other stuff, the game suffers.

My question: How do I/we tell him? We're all good friends and don't want to hurt his feelings. And he does design a good dungeon/write a good story.

Tips are very welcome, thank you.

Based on your post I have to say I see no indication he is a bad GM only that his encounters are not challenging enough for your group. Most GMs have strengths in one area weaknesses in other, his is tactical combat. But if you like his plots and dungeons, maybe try to focus on that and slowly bring him up to speed on combat (sounds like he is also new so if he excels in 2 out of 3 categories you might want to approach criticism with caution).

First identify why the combats are not challenging: is it because he doesn't plan challenging encounters? Becuase he doesn't run encounters well? Because he has different expectations from combat? (it is very possible he enjoys faster combats so he can get to the plot and exploration) Because you guys are overly optimized?

Once you know why you can try to address the issue. Without knowing the guy I cannot say what the best approach is. It sounds ike indirect mehods haven't made much ground, but at the same time if your biggest issue isncombats are not very challenging I am not sure that seems all that bad to me.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I don't agree with most of the posters here. Don't humiliate him, but DO get into a private conversation and tell him he just isn't that good! I mean, if you can't be honest with him, he's really more "some Joe you know" than "a friend". As a DM, I WANT my players to tell me of my weaknesses, so I can try to correct them!

Letting unspoken displeasure continue will just make things worse later.

Telling someone they are bad at something (especially something they do for fun) isn't going to go over well in most cases. "Your a bad GM" is too general and the phrasing is insulting (even if it means well). A little tact and forethought can go a long way. When I was involved in sports you never told a competitor he sucked at the game. He told him specifically what he sucked at and you made sure to let him know his strenght so he didn't undo that in an effort to fix the other issue. It sounds like this GM handles the non combat aspects of GMing just fine. If that is the case a simpe conversation like "i really love the adventures and dungeons you come up with but would you mind making the combat a little harder because I think my PC (or the party)needs to be challenged more by the threats we face". that is going to be a lot more effective than "you are not a good GM".

Keep in mind this is the guys hobby, not his job. If you are genuinely unsatisfied, then pick up the GM screen and show him how it is done. But if he is the only one willing to put the time in to run a game I really think a gentle approach is called for.

 

[Dordledum]

thanks all, for the tips and replies. just wanted to say that I maybe should have rephrased the thread title.

It is (as some of you pointed out) only the combat part which doesn't seem to be as satifying to a few of us as we are/were used to. He otherwise IS a great GM and storyteller.

Might have something to do with the fact that a few of us played the D&D miniatures skirmish game competatively for a few years and some of us haven't (including the GM). Varying expectancies etc.

On the other hand, when I asked him about it, he just indicated this week he doesn't always have enough time to properly prepare the encounters. (and getting creature sizes wrong, forgetting major abilities as conseqence).

For now we're adopting the approach where some of us (I'm first!) will GM a few sidequests in his campaign. So nobody has to retire characters or something, he gets some time to prepare for the major storylines, and those of us who like to can have their combatfocused sessions.

 

[Bedrockgames]

thanks all, for the tips and replies. just wanted to say that I maybe should have rephrased the thread title.

It is (as some of you pointed out) only the combat part which doesn't seem to be as satifying to a few of us as we are/were used to. He otherwise IS a great GM and storyteller.

Might have something to do with the fact that a few of us played the D&D miniatures skirmish game competatively for a few years and some of us haven't (including the GM). Varying expectancies etc.

On the other hand, when I asked him about it, he just indicated this week he doesn't always have enough time to properly prepare the encounters. (and getting creature sizes wrong, forgetting major abilities as conseqence).

For now we're adopting the approach where some of us (I'm first!) will GM a few sidequests in his campaign. So nobody has to retire characters or something, he gets some time to prepare for the major storylines, and those of us who like to can have their combatfocused sessions.

Maybbe he is gming the wrong system. Games like 3E or 4E require a bit of system mastery from the GM. Maybe he would be better running a game of savage worlds or similar rule light system?

 

[GhostBear]

He has no idea how to budget game time.

Example: We have a group of 7 PCs in L5R. Last session, he spent 2 hours (out of a total of 4 hours) focusing on one PC's activities. Not even important-to-his-story activities, just "I'm looking for a blacksmith to make me some new throwing knives" kind of activities.

I have this issue with my current DM. It's a small game, with 2 PCs and one "DM" PC. Very often we'll get into social situations in particular that seem to run on forever. You know what I mean:

You enter the tavern, the tavern keeper says hello, you sit down, waitress comes by, you order your food, look at the fire, listen to the guys in the corner playing dice, there's a cow outside the window...

So here's what I did. I let things go for a few minutes, and eventually say something like:

"We eat, socialize a bit, and go to bed. I'm excited about getting to the next part of the plot, let's go!"

If the DM wanted something important to happen, aside from smelling the flowers, then it'll happen. If not, we go to bed.

It worked, because it does two things:

A) It tells your DM that you're interested in what is going on story-wise (even if you're not, it's okay to lie a bit).
B) It helps him understand that not everything needs to be a detailed role playing experience. It's okay to summarize the unimportant stuff.

Don't criticize what you don't like as much as emphasize what you DO like. I used to do this all the time, but now I do it less and less because it is becoming unnecessary.

It's basically like training any other animal. Rewarding desired behavior is much more likely to result in a better trained animal than punishing undesired behavior.

Training your DM can take some time and effort, but it's well worth both.