How do you use a Sai?

[F5]

OK, in general, yes, I figure you hit the other guy with it. But in specific technique, isn't the Sai supposed to be primarily a defensive weapon? I thought the hooked prongs on either side are for catching and parrying an attackers' weapon.

I'll confess, this question comes from just having seen Elektra, and wondering if I'm right in thinking the Sai's stats in the PhB (blunt weapon, +4 to disarm) are more accurate than the popular portrayal of the weapon in movies and comics.

Can anyone out there with more specific knowledge help me out here?

 

[BiggusGeekus]

OK, my dabbling of martial arts resembled Chris Farley in Beverly Hills Ninja, however ...

I found parrying to be easier with a western-style basket hilt that covers the entire hand. You basically are just trying to punch the other guy's sword (or ratan club in my case).

Now, I have seen people use more exotic weapons very effectively. However, here's the thing, they practiced with them all the time. I saw one guy fight with two huge swords, each about four feet long from pommel to tip. The second one had an exaggerated hit that was about 18 to 24 inches long. He could fight offensively with both and then suddenly reverse his grip on the second and use it in a defensive fashion. But this guy was kind of a nut. He pretty much nothing else but martial arts and SCA-style fighting all the time.

My point is that when it comes to the cool-looking weapons, my experience is that they're easier to use in the movies than in real life.

Now, when it comes to D&D, the only question remains is how effective do you want the sai to be? Personally, I leave it as is in the core rules. If you want more people using the sai, then increase the defensive value. My personal reccomendation is that if you use cultrual or racial modifiers in your game to give one culture/race an extra +2 racial bonus to defense when using the sai. That will help distinguish the culture/race and give the weapon more time in the spotlight (if that's what you want).

Just my two cents.

 

[shadowlight]

I've studied using the sai for a couple of years, and my understanding is that it was initially used mainly defensively - to block swords. Generally you hold it them in a neutral position with the long middle prong lying flat against your forearm (with the handle pointing away from you and one of the prongs hooked between your thumb and index finger). This lets you use most of your regular unarmed blocks against weapons.

Sai are also really good for disarming and for breaking weapons. There are also several jujitsu techniques that apply to the sai that allow strong wrist (and other joint) locks/breaking.

When you are attacking with them they're generally bludgening (rather than piercing or slashing). You generally swing the center prong away from your forearm when you strike so you can hit with a lot of power (and with a nice metal surface).

Anyway, that's my 2 cents...

 

[Aristotle]

From most of my reading and discussions with people 'in the know' about martial arts I've come to pretty much the same conclusion. The tradition sai, as a martial arts weapon, was used heavily for blocking/parrying and weapon breaking. Using it as a weapon wouldn't be out of the question, and the blunt tip would still be more than adequite for 'piercing' if used correctly and applied with enough force.

The slender, sharply pointed, sai of comic books, action figures, and movies/television seems to be either an early misconception of what the weapon was for, an evolution of the weapon, or possible a valid variant from an offshoot martial art. I would think it would still be useful in many of the same ways (although the traditional grip for the weapon might be a bit more tricky to pull off without hurting yourself).

 

[Stone Angel]

I remember I had a talk with a guy that actually went to these camps in the summer we called them "ninja camps" in college. One night we watched a Ninja Turtles movie and he explained pretty much what everyone else here has said, with that it could be used to jab exposed parts of the body whether that meant it was supposed to actually be sharp as in the turtles or in Electra I don't know.


The Seraph of Earth and Stone

 

[Sfounder]

Sai

The sai is a traditional Okinawan weapon used for parrying and disarm. It's not sharp at any point in the main prong. It's also not pointy either. The line in Elektra about it being an offensive killing weapon is pretty much the exact opposite of reality. The above descriptions on keeping in a neutral position is pretty accurate, though there are plenty of nasty things you can counterattack with while still in that position.

Popular conception is that the weapon was born from a pitchfork like device, broken down to work as a weapon after the Japanese took away the local weapons.

Sai definitely take a LOT of training to use well.

 

[ken-ichi]

Sai can be held in many ways each used for a different purpose.
You can hold them as described by a previous poster with the long tine running along your forearm, this is a very defensive hold as you can block weapons just like you would normally block punches. You can flick the tine out and strike your enemy, mainly in wrists and similar joints and disable the oponnent.
Sai can be used to punch with both the handle and the long prong, the side prongs help catch a blade when used this way to disarm your opponent.
That is just a small portion of sai techniques, there are many other sai moves as well.
Sai are primarily blunt, but there are cases of sharpened sai, usually these sharpened sai were used by women.

 

[Prince of Happiness]

The sharpened sai/jitte: Take pointy end, stick in bad person. Repeat of necessary.

The blunt sai/jitte: Point a perp, say "Go yo." If person does not stop whatever it is that they are doing, hit with jitte until they stop doing whatever it is that they're doing that they shouldn't be doing.

 

[tarchon]

Mainly choreography and bluescreening.

 

[Ninjacat]

Okay, this thread caught my eye since I'm a martial-arts geek, and I have to pretty much concur with what has been said above. There certainly ARE quite a few different techniques that can be used with sai, but they are challenging to learn. I have no idea if the D&D rules suggest a learning penalty or whatever, but my two cents would be that this is along the lines of the cultural/regional suggestion someone else made, ie: depending on the level of "realism" you're attempting to portray, make it harder to learn or offer bonuses to the people who are more likely to know it.

Uhm, two cents on the technique thing: holding the sai in the "defensive" position with the main prong along the forearm is often referred to as the "closed" position and the reverse, held like a standard knife, is the "open" position. Sai are usually used as a paired weapon, mostly with one in one position and one in the other, to present both offense and defense. They can be easily flipped to the alternate position, allowing the wielder to switch their dominant hand to attack or defend as needed, surprise an opponent by suddenly slternating the technique being used by either hand, etc.

Also, keep in mind that most "ninja" weapons were originally farm implements or walking sticks/staves, because the ruling class forbade the commoners from bearing weapons. This let the powerful remain in power, until the commoners figured out how to use their everyday items as weapons. The sai did indeed start life as a pitchfork, the nunchuck or three-piece staff was a threshing flail, a quarterstaff or jo stick was obviously a hiking aid, etc. etc. So, sai were originally 'pointy', but not bladed, because the blades were what was forbidden by the ruling class. The farmers quickly figured out how to use their pronged pitchforks to break the ruling class' blades...

(oh, and another historical note of interest is the ninja "Art of invisibility" thing: Hollywood would have us believe the ninja could hide in plain sight by somehow remaining unseen, etc. etc., but the this actually referred to the fact that no one ever saw a ninja assassin, they were only known to have been present once the deed was done. Now really, how effective is an assassin that is seen coming? That's why it's part of the rogue class, obviously. The use of common farm implements as deadly weapons meant that anyone could have been a ninja, since at least 80% of the populace were commoners/farmers. Food for thought. )