How do you use knowledge skills?

[Asmor]

Part of my prep involves printing out monster stat blocks (in MM4/DMG2 format) on single pages by themselves. Depending on the source, this may mean just a straight copy-paste, or it may require me to translate from the old stat blocks to the new.

At the end I list knowledge DCs, typically 2-3. If the monster's already got it, such as in recent monster books, I just use that. Otherwise, I make it up myself. The type is as dictated by the monster's type, and the first success tells you the monster's type (i.e. success reveals all outsider and baatezu traits), and each level of success (including the first) tells you a tidbit to help you fight the monster; notable attacks and defenses, primarily, such as DR/Adamantine or a wisdom-draining touch. Of course, I don't just say "DC 23: It has DR 10/Adamantine," but rather "DC 23: The beast's tough exoskeleton is incredibly difficult to harm, but adamantine is effective."

Here's an example for a monster I made, called Shock Skeletons, which were sort of a cross between skeletons and shocker lizards.

Knowledge (Religion)
DC 16: This is a shock skeleton. Its bones are plated with various metals and alloys, essentially turning it into a walking battery. It can shoot blasts of electricity. Like all skeletons, bludgeoning weapons are most effective against them.
DC 21: Sonic damage is capable of wrecking havoc on shock skeletons. Their blasts are relatively weak alone, but they can team up to generate more powerful and lethal electrical blasts.

And what I wrote for the Warforged Titan (MM 3)

Knowledge (Arcana)
DC 23: This is a Warforged Titan, a massive, hulking warforged with no more sentience than an animal. It is highly resistant to all forms of energy and most weapons as well; only adamantine weapons can easily cut through its thick hide.

 

[LonePaladin]

One alteration I made to the Knowledge DCs for creatures is removing the Hit-Die basis; why should a creature with more hit points be harder to identify? Instead, I base the DC on the Challenge Rating (such as that is), while allowing a DC 10 check (which anyone can make) to recognize the basic creature type (aberration, monstrous humanoid, undead, construct, etc.).

This allows anyone with a moderate Intelligence score to recognize the general abilities of the creature in question — I assume anyone with at least a +0 bonus knows the general details of the types listed in the Monster Manual. This way they know not to use mind-affecting abilities on undead, or poisons on elementals.

I like Asmor's breakdown, where the basic check (the one above DC 10, at least) gives you a rough idea of what the critter is capable of, while higher DCs list immunities and vulnerabilities. I tend to prep my statblocks ahead of time as well; I might see about adding Lore sections at the end myself. 'Course, right now I'm running a 19th-level game, and some statblocks are just packed with details already — having a mage with permanent arcane sight requires me to list all the magical auras on every creature ahead of time, in case he asks (and he does, often, right before throwing a greater dispel magic).

 

[kensanata]

Never use the back button to edit your post.

 

[kensanata]

Randomness is not much of a problem since by now we have at least two PCs in the group with significant Knowledge ranks to beat DC 20 often enough. The occasional "nope, you don't recall having heard of such a creature/symbol/language/weapon before" just reinforces the importance of spending skill points. In one group nobody in the group has taken Knowledge (local) – not a problem, I say. Whenever something like that comes up, I say "since you've never been interested in politics, you have no idea who this guy is." And my players understand. We really like Knowledge checks!

Here's what we use most of the time:

• Knowledge (nature) for most monsters above ground
• Knowledge (religion) for holy symbols, evil clerics and the like
• Knowledge (planes) for all sorts of outsiders
• Knowledge (arcana) for dragons, spells, etc.
• Knowledge (local) for politics, names, faces, factions
• Heal for wounds, causes of death, how long ago somebody died – should be Knowledge (medicine)!

Usually I fudge the DC. DC 10 is something trivial like "it's an outsider". DC 15 is easy "from hell". DC 20 is useful "can only be hurt with magic weapons and resists fire". DC 30 is amazing "you remember his name being listed amongst the devils that joined Pazuzu in his fight against Obox-Obs five hundred years ago."

 

[Ed_Laprade]

Ah yes, there really ought to be a Knowledge: Monsters skill. (And Knowledge: Ruins, Magic, etc. IMNSHO.)

 

[Asmor]

Ah yes, there really ought to be a Knowledge: Monsters skill. (And Knowledge: Ruins, Magic, etc. IMNSHO.)

Uhh... It sounds like you may have been being facetious, but just in case...

Knowledge (Dungeoneering), (History) or (Local) would apply to ruins, depending on the DM and situation.

Knowledge (Arcana) is the skill for knowledge of magic.

And every monster type is linked to a particular knowledge skill... Animals are (Nature), Undead are (Religion) and Aberrations are (Dungeoneering), for example.

 

[howandwhy99]

I nuked the "monster roll" knowledge skills. They are worthwhile without being related to combat effectiveness.

 

[delericho]

Is the skill a bonus that aids the player's gaps in knowledge on the subjects?

Is the existence of the skill a limit for characters that don't invest in it?

Yes to both. Although if one player knows stuff, but his PC doesn't have the ranks, then he can explain that stuff on behalf of a player who doesn't know the stuff, but whose PC does have the ranks.

Do you have a problem with a player playing a knowledgeable character with no knowledge skill points (such as a tiefling fighter who knows the politics of hell and the DR type vulnerabilities among the hierarchy of devils)?

Yes, subject to the above. It tends not to be a huge issue for me, since my players tend to be on the 'casual' end of the spectrum. It's also worth noting that a character's background will weigh on what he counts as 'common knowledge', but even for Tieflings the detailed politics of Hell don't fall into that category.

For instance I had a pc playing a dwarven cleric of a knowledge god in my game. He had a metal domain and was the son of a dwarven silversmith with a lot of smithing skill himself. In the game he came across some ancient metal weapons and I didn't even look at his knowledge skills, I gave him some cool info on arsenic bronze and the dangerous smithing techniques it required that added to the atmosphere of the game and was inline with his character.

I sometimes use Craft, Heal and Professions as 'pseudo-Knowledge' skills, in that characters with those skills will have detailed knowledge of the areas covered, without resort to an actual Knowledge skill. Technically, I suppose these checks should default to Int... but I don't bother.

I also find monster info is a tough call on what is appropriate "useful information".

This is something the first MM was weak on, but later entries in the series improved on a great deal. Also, the Ecology features in Dragon magazine helped a lot. When dealing with a creature that hasn't been written up in that style, I eyeball the existing examples to get an idea of the amount of information that I should offer.

 

[QuaziquestGM]

Clue bat.

I call for knowledge checks when the PC should know something that the player doesn't.

This often comes up with druids and rangers, as I am a rural raised bio-education major and most of my players are city slickers who have never so much as read an issue of Ranger Rick. (really, you ought to be able to describe the habitat and natural food of your animal companion and most players I know give me a blank stare if I ask them if they want an American or European badger. )

(Ok...the American is Smaller, more aggressive, solitary, is native to plains and prairie environments, has less complex and less extensive tunnel and den systems, nomadic, and is less omnivorous;

the European is larger, less aggressive sometimes to the point of semi domestication, native to forests, and have extensive and complex burrow systems that they permanently occupy and often share in a semi-communal fashion with other badgers. )

Sometimes I wish that 3.5 druids still had the Nature Sence ablity so I could just tell them...but that would make Iding and fighting plant and animal monsters too easy....

 

[Asmor]

American or European badger

Wha? I don't know tha--AAAAAUUUGHHHHH!