How does managing logistics hurt role playing?

[Henry]

I think it depends a lot on the group.
...Everyone is different and what one person finds fun or immersive or interesting might bore another person to tears. It's just a question of finding what works for you & your group.

This is the most salient point. Some groups like the management involved, as part of the immersion in their character. After all, how many people would think to roleplay a low Wisdom score by intentionally FORGETTING to stock up on food and supplies??

One of the best articles Dragon Magazine ever had was "Be aware, take care," by Lew Pulsipher. This article gave more tips on adventurers surviving common threats than any article I have ever seen before or since. Wizards of the coast needs to purchase the rights to this article, update it for 3E, and print it in the frigging Revised Players Handbook - it's that good. One of it's points was the "Conan" effect.

"Many players point to Conan and Fafhrd and the Mouser to show that heroes don't keep track of supplies. However, DM's need to point out that their PC's aren't Conan. They are more like the grizzled veterans of the trenches. Also, keep in mind that Conan and others are probably re-supplying themselves 'off-stage', and it isn't show because it's part of the action." - roughly paraphrased from the article in question.

While some may prefer to be Conan or Elric, others may prefer to be the "grizzled Veterans."

 

[seasong]

I make sure we know what the players have. I don't check everything constantly, and I don't ride herd on the players to be exact or precise. I do just enough to get the feel of grit, and to occasionally have them missing something, to help immersion.

But checking it constantly and exactly is tedious. It doesn't directly interfere with roleplaying, unless you consider boredom to be interfering. Some people enjoy it, and more power to them, but I don't.

On the other hand, in my story hour, the PCs didn't have torches twice, and were missing rope once, because I kept reasonable, non-tedious track of stuff. So I also don't really see the need for the tedium.

 

[kengar]

This is why there is such a thing called "Party funds". I tell my players to divide the party into equal shares such as <total number of party members>+1. That "+1" goes into party slush fund to pay for all sorts of things. I have one of the players keeping tabs on that and they just say "Ok going into a dungeon for a while, I need 10 barrels of ale, 10 months of food, etc. A just deduct it from that. Once that is paid for i just ignore the small things like torches, rope, and so forth and take it they have enough for the 'common' things. Building a rope bridge? No, not enough for that. A couple hundred feet is enough, but i keep it within reason.

Examples like that allow gameplay to flow smoothly. Now if they want to equip an army that's a differnt story, that costs $$$ and I make SURE they pay for every spearhead, food ration, and tent! It ain't cheap to keep an army running!

As DM, I would be happy with this except for the fact that we have a couple players that would try to abuse this mightily. They are the types who -while they will accept the DMs ruling of "no, you didn't buy that"- will try again shamelessly over & over whenever an inventory issue arises.

"Of COURSE I would have bought six bags of caltrops and a tanglefoot bag!"

 

[Desdichado]

Of course it's not true that logistics, etc. detract from roleplaying. They certainly add to it, because your character would certainly worry about things like that.

However, for many players, and these are those that are rather unceremoniously labelled as roleplayers by most, care more about recreating the experiences of your typical fantasy adventure novel or movie. In that case, the tedium of counting your torches, etc. does become a hindrance because it is not something you ever really see in adventure books and movies. (For that matter, neither is dungeon-crawling, but that's a topic for another thread. But, you see the connection here, those that don't like micromanaging don't like things like dungeon-crawling (often) because it's not "roleplaying." In this context, that label is a misnomer.)

Personally, I'm somewhere in the middle. I find micromanaging to be somewhat tedious, but I can appreciate the interest of having to cope with challenges because you don't have the right equipment to do so to be an interesting one too.

 

[AngelTears]

I think managing is a wonderful tool for off-table gaming. That means that buying things don't happen during the beginning of the game or at the end for that matter, but someone keeps an eye on supplies.

But I think players should be acutely aware of how much things weigh. 100 pounds is the standard combat load in the Finnish Army. Carrying around a big tent and stove are not light. And going through dense woods with such equipment is not easy. Jumping down off a six foot high wall is suddenly more serious then jumping unburdened.

I was thinking on using a page where things are located. It makes it more exciting if they for instance loose tehur packs and end up having to survive on what they have in their pouches.

Also I am strong advocate of the same with money, with it being counted by a 'a lot', 'some', and 'little'. Not how many thousand you have in the communal chest down the last wooden nickle.


Maybe if you are down to the last wooden nickle do you then start want to keep track on what exactly you spend money on. But if your characters can buy castles from the communal chest, or hire a 50 man mercenary group and be able to stock them as well for six month with equipment. Then maybe buying a torch should be counted as silly.

 

[Pielorinho]

It's obviously a continuum. Nobody keeps track of a character's blinking, or of a character's sharpening her sword at night, or of a character's bathroom habits. On the other hand, everybody keeps track of the charges remaining on a ring of three wishes.

I figure where you fall on the continuum depends on what you think is fun. Me, I keep track (as a player) of my encumbrance, and make sure I carry a light source (continual flame on a glove works great), and track masterwork or better ammunition and basic gear. I don't track regular ammunition or food, and I assume that I convert coins into easily-transported amounts (I figure my normal merchant is going to make this conversion for me happily, if he wants my continued business). As a player, I ask my players to keep rough track of this stuff, but unless the adventure pulls them away from civilization, I don't ask for detailed tracking of every arrow, of every ounce of water, and so on.

As a group, the dreariest part of the game is already treasure-management -- figuring out who gets what, what we can sell and to whom, what we can buy instead, what items we'll make, and so forth. We don't find it especially fun, and we hate it when it occasionally eats up most of a session. Minimizing this sort of thing is therefore a priority for us.

It's all about the fun, natch, and for our group, the fun isn't in the resource management.

Daniel

 

[LostSoul]

As far as minis and battlemats go, I think that the more rules you have covering battle the less options you've got and the less character you can interject into your PC. If the combat system is really abstract, then you can illustrate the battle through description and that alone instead of the placing of miniatures.

 

[Victim]

It's not very immersive for one or two people to sit looking at an equipment list for an hour while they buy all the provisions needed by a small army for a couple months along with the wagon, packmules, etc to carry it all. Actually, I think it took more than an hour. We ended up with a decent wagon, some pack animals, critters to pull the wagon, a cart with a Ballista that trailed behind the wagon and other stuff. Stuff like a whole bunch of chickens, feed, a portable forge, lots of extra arrows. We had enough supplies for a small freakin army - which we were, since the group was unusually large at that time. Maybe figuring out all that equipment for an hour or more was a fun activity for the few people involved - but not for everyone waiting.

 

[barsoomcore]

I pay attention to stuff like that when it's exciting to do so. Running out of torches can be a real nail-biter if it's handled right.

Recently on Barsoom (why do I always hear Tony Head saying that?) our heroes had to find their way out of a very bad place by sneaking along a set of tunnels of unknown length. I suddenly got very serious about how much light they had, and kept emphasizing how dark and scary it was. They were expecting a trip of only a few hours.

Two days later, they're feeling their way through narrow slit caves without any light whatsoever. The players were creeped out, claustrophobic and terrified. This went on for three or four game sessions, fumbling their way through these endless caverns and having to fight for their lives against truly vile opponents. It was gross and disturbing and dark dark dark.

They were very happy to get out of that place.

Sometimes resource management is great for role-playing. On the other hand, I hate that "Let's whip out the Player's Handbook and stock up for every possibly eventuality" mode.

 

[Victim]

I pay attention to stuff like that when it's exciting to do so. Running out of torches can be a real nail-biter if it's handled right.

Recently on Barsoom (why do I always hear Tony Head saying that?) our heroes had to find their way out of a very bad place by sneaking along a set of tunnels of unknown length. I suddenly got very serious about how much light they had, and kept emphasizing how dark and scary it was. They were expecting a trip of only a few hours.

Two days later, they're feeling their way through narrow slit caves without any light whatsoever. The players were creeped out, claustrophobic and terrified. This went on for three or four game sessions, fumbling their way through these endless caverns and having to fight for their lives against truly vile opponents. It was gross and disturbing and dark dark dark.

They were very happy to get out of that place.

Sometimes resource management is great for role-playing. On the other hand, I hate that "Let's whip out the Player's Handbook and stock up for every possibly eventuality" mode.

IIRC, you don't allow PC spellcasters. If the PCs could load up on light cantrips or whatever, then it'd be a different story right?