How does striking an opponent heal your allies?

[shilsen]

Tongue firmly in cheek:

Characters in the D&D world are actually living batteries of a mysterious force called "positive energy". Positive energy protects a character in many ways. It allows him to stave off the effects of dangerous liquids such as acid and lava so that he can swim in them for short periods of time, to twist and turn in mid-air so that he lands on a flexible tree that breaks his fall or catch hold of rocky ledges or the sides of cliffs to slow his descent, and to turn otherwise lethal strikes with weapons into near-misses, bruises or cuts (positive energy is smart enough to know when the character is affected by injury poison and needs to be cut). However, doing all of these things expends positive energy, and when a character's reserves of positive energy are low, he can be killed. Spells such as cure light wounds restore positive energy, but because high level characters have greater reserves of positive energy than low-level characters, it takes more applications of that spell to fully restore a high-level character than it does for a low-level character.

[hong]Also known as "dude factor"[/hong]

 

[WhatGravitas]

[hong]Also known as "dude factor"[/hong]

Which I quote-posted on the previous page, but NOONE LISTENed TO ME! THIS DISCUSSION COULD'VE BEEN OVER, IF PEOPLE LISTENED TO ME!

Don't know what I'm channelling right now...

Cheers, LT.

 

[Sir Sebastian Hardin]

Assuming we're talking about the cleric class, I have an easy answer. With the Warlord, it's a bit more complicated, but still justifiable with a little bit of mental gymnastics.

First off the cleric. Let's say the cleric channels healing energy whenever he rolls a natural 20. This reflects the cleric "having his deity's favor." The precedent for this is that in Saga, a character who rolls a 20 on his "use the force" check gets his used powers back, because said roll means "the force is with him." To reflect the mercurial nature of a cleric having his god's favor, they could institute a similar mechanic.

Alternatively, the cleric could be totally driven by the power of his god, and so when he strikes a blow against the enemies of his god, divine energy flows forth from him. That's a little more predictable than waiting for a good roll...and just as justifiable.

With the Warlord, it's a pretty similar logic, but it relies on the Warlord's fellows being "revived" when he strikes a mighty blow. This relies heavily on the "second wind" or "morale" nature of hit points, and so bothers some people's suspension of disbelief. Personally, I find it easier to believe that hit points only reflect "one's ability to survive attacks." And until the character is at (or below) 0 hit points, he just hasn't sustained any serious injuries.

Of course, that would require the names of the healing spells to be changed, which I think is happening anyway. Magical healing, especially regarding low-level characters (heroic or otherwise) and the efficacy of "Cure Light Wounds," is the only thing that doesn't easily fit the notion of "hit points as abstract damage." As such, IMO, it's the magic that should be changed.

This whole brain exercise to explain how this mechanic works goes against the whole "more intuitive" feel the want to give the game now.

"The cleric just critical hit the dragon for 18 damage! that's inspiring, I suddenly feel healed"..."Wow, the Lawful Good Epic Fighter just critical hit the other dragon for 74 damage!!!!!.... well that's not as inspiring..."

And people are now talking about the nature of healing and new mechanics of healing magic when it would all be solved by saying: "Yes. At best it complicates things. And it doesn't feel right, let's change this single mechanic instead of changing the whole thing"

 

[Hussar]

At the moment, we don't know if the fighter could or could not grant hp's for rolling that crit, so, it's a moot point.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Morale.

And it's not even that unrealistic.

Ever hear the story of Vince Lombardi firing up a player to the point that he played with a broken leg?

Chuck

And after the game the player went out and danced the night away, right?

Not healing. Temp hp at best, a morale bonus to con which allowed the player to more seriously damage himself while "feeling no pain" at worst. Either of which would be acceptable mechanics to use to get through the fight until actual healing was available. But true healing? No.

 

[Nebulous]

Naw, I think they're finally going to pretty much own up to the fact that HP's are entirely abstract and have very, very little to do with the actual health of your PC. So, seeing Mr Battleaxe totally splat the baddie makes you feel just a bit better about yourself.

No magic needed.

This is the only way to possibly make it feasible. I hope the 4e PH makes in clear that hitpoints are extremely abstract and do not purely represent physical damage.

As an aside though, i've always wished there was a way to easily represent broken bones and the like that require immediate attention.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

This is the only way to possibly make it feasible. I hope the 4e PH makes in clear that hitpoints are extremely abstract and do not purely represent physical damage.

As an aside though, i've always wished there was a way to easily represent broken bones and the like that require immediate attention.

"Making it clear" isn't so much the issue to me as "making it work." The abstraction argument just bogs down in so many contridictions and redundancies in the current system.

The main way abstracted hp could work for me would be (as several have said) if it was only one part of the system with a wound point system beside it. HP damage, under such a system could never kill you, just knock you out, because it doesn't actually represent killing wounds. Crits, successful sneak attacks, poisons, etc would do wound points that could actually kill you.

 

[Nebulous]

"Making it clear" isn't so much the issue to me as "making it work." The abstraction argument just bogs down in so many contridictions and redundancies in the current system.

The main way abstracted hp could work for me would be (as several have said) if it was only one part of the system with a wound point system beside it. HP damage, under such a system could never kill you, just knock you out, because it doesn't actually represent killing wounds. Crits, successful sneak attacks, poisons, etc would do wound points that could actually kill you.

Sounds like the Vitality and Wounds that SWd20 did. I actually thought that would be a great system if adapted to D&D. PC's would have a buffer of Vitality that would recharge relatively quickly (think of it like shields). It would really make a healing class less necessary after every battle because PC's would naturally recharge. Only when you get critically hit, or whatever, would your wounds necessitate you get magical or mundane healing. The whole game would have to be reworked though with this concept in mind.

Doesn't Unearthed Arcana have this option in there as well for Vitality?

 

[Skaven_13]

This whole brain exercise to explain how this mechanic works goes against the whole "more intuitive" feel the want to give the game now.

"The cleric just critical hit the dragon for 18 damage! that's inspiring, I suddenly feel healed"..."Wow, the Lawful Good Epic Fighter just critical hit the other dragon for 74 damage!!!!!.... well that's not as inspiring..."

And people are now talking about the nature of healing and new mechanics of healing magic when it would all be solved by saying: "Yes. At best it complicates things. And it doesn't feel right, let's change this single mechanic instead of changing the whole thing"

let's just turn the hp system into a psychological system then:

It's not that the dragon was critically hit for damage, but was given a stern talking to about the shortcomings of the dragon, and the fact that the dragon has been repressing feelings of abandonment by it's mother. (depression - 74 points)

 

[SteveC]

If you assume HP as a box with inside "health, dogde abilities, sixt sense ecc.", how do you explain healing in general?

I mean, if a character with 5|10 hp is hurth as much as a 50|100 hp one, why does the latter need more healing spells?!

The 100 hp guy shoul less hurt than the inexperienced one (and thus with less hp), because he reduced most of the killing blows into simple scratches... and yet he needs a magic of such a power that could heal a dozen wounded 1st level cohort.
This is the thing I never understood about healing magic, even more than the possibility of a healing smite!

Maybe a healing magic that works with pc levels and costitution could make more sense?

Not that IMHO, HP as this ever made sense... we already have distinct values for dodging (AC), experience (more feats&abilities, some of them defensive) and luck (the dice roll). This is Gigax legacy!!!

It's actually pretty simple. Whatever factors are taken into account to mitigate damage operate in reverse for healing. Like my .SIG used to say:"It would be vain to imagine we could be favored without effort. Miracles come to those who risk defeat in seeking them. They come to those who have exhausted themselves completely in a struggle to accomplish the impossible."

So basically HP damage = base damage divided by experience/effort/fate/etc level up multiplier.

HP Healed = Healing divided by experience/effort/fate/etc level up multiplier.

The more you can accomplish, the more that needs to be done to make you whole.

--Steve