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How does the Paladin stack up?

Lord Pendragon

First Post
I've got this itch to play a single-classed paladin. But I've been looking over the class abilties, and the class seems really sub-par in some ways. Abilities like Remove Disease, and Smite Evil (only usable once a day, for one attack?) seem very weak. And the paladin's mount is pretty fragile, unless you wait until half the campaign is over. The paladin also requires at least three good stats (STR, CON, CHA) and really does best with four (WIS).

But maybe these problems only exist on paper. Anyone out there play a paladin long-term? How was he power-wise? Did he manage to stack up to the fighter or barbarian?

Some feedback would be great. :)
 

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The paladin has *excellent* spells.

Bless Weapon at 4th level penetrates any damage resistance on evil creatures and you don't have to roll to confirm a crit. Yay! Other good 1st level spells include endure elements (24hr duration), protection from evil and divine favour.

2nd level spells are not too brilliant, but you can stack up extra 1st level spells there :)

3rd level spells include dispel magic,

4th level spells include the totally kickin' Holy Sword and Dispel Evil.

A single-classed paladin really wins out in terms of his magic spells.

The Mount is actually a strong ally at 5th level when it appears - the only issue is whether the DM is prepared to run adventures where you can use him. If you get mostly outdoor adventures where you can use ride-by-attack and spirited-charge you are laughing. If the DM can tell you (or you already know) that you are going to be spending very little time in dungeons, ask the DM if you can swap the mount for some kind of celestial companion (akin to the blackguards fiendish companion), or wait for a higher level mount that can shapechange to human form or something.

Basic answer: Yes, a single classed paladin can be great fun to play and has an excellent package of abilities.

Play up that fearlessness!

"Dragons frightful presence? I tremble not!"
"Where are you going, my companions?"
 

I don't think Paladins are significantly weaker than their Fighter or Ranger cousins, although I see why you're concerned about some of their (fairly limited) abilities.

If you can convince your DM that it's a bit on the weak side, though, you can shoot for the Hospitaler PrC (from Defenders of the Faith). The Hospitaler is pretty overpowered for a PrC, because it's not very hard to get into, you lose very little, and gain quite a bit. So if your DM also thinks Paladins are somewhat short-changed, he'll probably let you become a Hospitaler pretty easily.

To become a Hospitaler, you'll have to take Mounted Combat and Ride-By Attack, but those feats will probably get more mileage from a Paladin than most other characters. You'll lose two more levels of undead turning ability, your hit die goes down to d8, and you'll have to tack on a few more rules to your code of conduct (like an oath of poverty). Also, I don't think your mount progresses with Hospitaler levels. But you gain four bonus combat feats, so you're definitely coming out ahead.
 

Have a paladin in my group with these stats:

Str 11, Dex 11, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 18. (at level 1)

She had a hard time in battles to compete with the halforc barbarian and the dwarven fighter with lots more strength, but as she hit 4th level and added in a little Divine Favor and Bless weapon now and then and her BAB slowly reached the region of the multiclassing other fightertypes who had better strength...

She has good hitpoints and good AC, that keeps her alive in battles and her saves are horrible good (she kept going against a horde of ghouls while the other fightertypes all got paralyzed). Fear spells who often get the barbarian running do not stop her as well as anything else. And the healing in a group without full score cleric is very much appreciated by the others.
 

The Paladin is my favorite class.

The only thing I can say is:

Horses and dungeons do not mix. If the DM lets you have a different mount, like a dire lion, griffon or dragon, then this is the class for you. If not, then let me suggest a Fighter/Cleric...

Also, small paladins are insanely powerful on medium mounts. Fear the halfling paladin on a celestial riding dog. ;)
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Oh yeah, and DIVINE MIGHT ROCKS!!! Whew... :)

(And yes, IMCs Divine Might takes a standard action to activate. The Sage was smoking crack on that one. It would be TOO good if it was a free action to activate.)
 

If you look at page 5 of the thread "Does a single class ranger stack up" or something of that nature, I wrote a comparison b/w palys and rangers. I listed almost all of the paladins ability and a summary of what each is good for, so that might help a little.
 

FWIW I think the Templar (also from Defenders) is a better PrC for a paladin than the Hospitaler, but both are fairly overpowered PrCs... Depends if you want to be a spell casting paladin or a fighting paladin. The free Weapon specialization is great, and Mettle is awesome. The bonus proficiencies are icing on the cake.
 

A paladin has some perks that may not shine in every campaign, but are very important in some. The immunity to fear and disease is very nice when you face foes that use such attacks, especially undead. Turn undead can also be a very efficient power when faced with things like shadows that can wreak havoc on PCs. The charisma bonus to all saves is an immense boost. With a high charisma a paladin wlaks through spells that best the rest. Even a clumsy paladin (dex 8) has a decent reflex save thanks to her Charisma, which many a fighter cannot match. Then there is the lay on hands ability. Not only is it the most efficient healing - you do not waste a single point - it also makes for good offense against undead. Let's see how that Lich likes it if you pour the whole amount of the lay on hands healing ability into it as damage. Smite Evil is also a perk of the class, since it allows the player to decide when to do more damage instead of waiting for a critical, or sacrificing attack for damage with power attack. As long as you do not fight that many encounters per day a paladin can really dish it out against, evil and undead by choosing how and when you use your abilities.
Now comes the mount. Don't think of it just as free transport, consider it a big familiar. It is intelligent, gains useful powers (ever thought about how the command horses power can be used against opponents in a charge?) and not too shabby in a fight by itself, not to mention when used with a heavy lance and spirited charge. Remember Fury? A paladin mount is just like Fury, and who would not like that horse on his side?
Now add in spells. Create water may not seem like much, but travel through a desert and it is a godsend. Bless weapon has been mentioned before, a real boost even if you have a magic weapon already. If you use the splatbooks there are even more spells, some specifically made to let the paladin reach that BBEG through his horde of followers, but one in particular stands out, the nice spell that lets a paladin sacrifice up to 10 hitpoints for 5d6 additional damage (Divine Sacrifice iirc).
If your battles are one like the other all day long, then a paladin may not shine as much, but if you happen to regulrly have climatic battles against a big evil thing, then a paladin, unlike a fighter, can really focus on that encounter with spells and abilities and dish out a ton of damage in one blow.

That was the mechanic aspect, now for the roleplaying advantages. A paladin is more than just a mounted fighter, or even a shining knight - he is a warrior chosen by a god himself. Almost anyone has heard stories about paladins, and their code. In a feudal system a paladin embodies the legendary chivalry of the knights of the round table, and the might of the church and at the same time has the thrust of the common people. Paladins are rare as well - your paladin will be one of a few chosen, recognized for his valor and honor by strangers, foes and friends alike. You may not be that good at infiltrating the evil hideout, but few manage impress people like a paladin, and he does not even need to drag a dead dragon behind him. A paladin can also be trusted, and people in power know about his code. That means that any attempt to frame him for a crime has less chance to succeed than it would have when the target was a valiant but violent fighter.
Paladins are also noble by default, which is a very important perk in a feudal society.
Last but not least, while the church may order a paladin around (also known as "convenient source of adventure hooks" by DMs), the church also offers a vast amount of ressources to a paladin, who is, after all, one of the "stars" of the organization, chosen by the big boss (i.e. god) himself). Mess with the paladin, and you mess with a whole lot of clerics.

Edit: forgot a very valuable spell. Just for information: I do not play a paladin, but I DM for one, and so I have experienced all that I mentioned.
 
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I am actually planning on being a halfling paladin in the next campaign I'm going to be in. I'm really psyched about taking my celestial riding dog along and using a lance in most combats. From what I've seen of Paladins, they are great. I'd almost take one over a straight fighter. Sure, a fighter gets lots of feats, but feats only help so much. Paladins get so many cool inherent bonuses, you almost don't need the feats.

That being said, does anyone have any tips on how to design and/or play a paladin? Whether specifically for a small sized paladin or not.

ConcreteBuddha - you mentioned Divine Might rocking... I remember seeing the feat, but don't remember exactly what it does. Could you fill us in on what it does and why it's so great?

-The Souljourner
 

Divine Might is a feat from Defenders of the Faith, Souljourner

prereqs: ability to turn or rebuke undead, Cha 13+, Str 13+, power attack

benefit: spend one of your turn/rebuke undead attempts to add your Cha mod to your weapons damage for (Cha bonus) in rounds
 

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