How Does "The Rules Aren't Physics" Fix Anything?

Andor said:
We're on fundamentally different pages here. What is an RPG? If it's an exercise in creative joint storytelling then I don't need rules at all. If it's a tactical game of combat then I don't need named characters and local towns and economies.

What...what....if it is all of the above? What if RPGs are about playing a character in a consistent world, a tactical game, and an exercise in storytelling? What if a game has to support all three?

Also, I am officially declaring an moratorium on the statement "joint storytelling then I don't need rules!" It's over. No one can ever use it again, because if you do, my head will explode with anger. And I'm not talking just like a little explosion, like my brains get all over my computer and my housemates have an awkward cleaning bill. I am talking a kiloton range explosion. Say a 550 KT warhead, going off on the ground right here in the city in which I live. We're talking at least a half million deaths from fires, the explosion and the resulting fallout.

Do you want to kill 500,000 people? No, I didn't think so. Storytelling games need rules. That's why they all have them. Or hadn't you noticed that all the various folks who advocate storytelling in games or say "hey these narrativist games are the bomb" are using rules? Are they just lobotomized space chimps to you?

The rules serve a purpose in a storytelling game- they add an element of tension and unpredictability. The rules serve a purpose in a tactical game- they define the gameplay and so forth. The rules serve a purpose in a simulation- they do the simulating.

But a RPG is all of these things, all at once. And guess what? Playability trumps simulation. Playability trumps tactical complexity. Playability trumps storytelling needs. All of these serve the central Gods of "Fun" and "Ease of Use."

Hit points do not model anything at all. They aren't an abstraction of damage, health, willpower, luck and dodging- they represent nothing but a gameplay tool. Literally just how many hits you can take. Nothing more, nothing less.

See all those rationalizations about "what hit points are" that people have argued over for decades now...they mean nothing. Hit points aren't a model of anything. It's why Max Payne can take painkillers and get over a gunshot wound, but in a cutscene he suffers from them normally. It's why Aeris dies. It's why in Call of Duty 4 you can be next to a grenade when it goes off and badly injured- but a few moments later you're up to full health again. And yet in a cinematic or a cutscene, you'd suffer real injury.

Why? Gameplay. It would suck for a first person shooter to say, "Okay! You got shot in the stomach! After six months of intensive care, you're able to return to duty." Call of Duty 4 would end pretty quickly- and you'd miss all the cool action sequences that game offers.

Even Call of Cthulhu, a game where I once lost an investigator's foot to frostbite and ended up dying of infection after the amputation, has ridiculously fast healing times. 2d3 HP a week is entirely possible- you can get taken down to the verge of death by gunshot wounds and be back on your feet in a month or two. And unless the GM exercises the "Keeper's Discretion" rule on injuries, you'll never need a colostomy bag, a reconstructive skin transplant for your face or anything that real people need. You won't die of sepsis after a punctured pancreas. You won't even bleed to death unless the Keeper says you do. Why? Gameplay- knocking an investigator out for a couple of weeks is bad enough if there's only a year before the Great Ceremony of Doom.

Even Call of Cthulhu, explicitly set in the real world, thematically organized around "regular, plain jane humans with no cinematic qualities", is generous (well, for CoC) in recovery.
 
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Cadfan said:
A certain amount of whether the game world feels real to you is a function of the rules. But perhaps a larger portion is an act of will. This is the lesson which Hong has endeavored to teach you, but as his efforts at instruction through zen koan have failed, I have an alternate solution- thou shalt go forth, and play a game of Og: Unearthed with thy drinking buddies, and then a game of Faery's Tale with your eight year old niece. Observe how your drinking buddies accept the game world and revel in it precisely because the rules are highly abstract, and how your eight year old niece accepts the game world simply because it pleases her to do so.

This shall cleanse thy spirit, and thou shall be renewed.
I think you're starting to suffer from oxygen deprivation up there on your high horse. Perhaps you should climb down.
 


Cadfan said:
A certain amount of whether the game world feels real to you is a function of the rules. But perhaps a larger portion is an act of will. This is the lesson which Hong has endeavored to teach you, but as his efforts at instruction through zen koan have failed, I have an alternate solution- thou shalt go forth, and play a game of Og: Unearthed with thy drinking buddies, and then a game of Faery's Tale with your eight year old niece. Observe how your drinking buddies accept the game world and revel in it precisely because the rules are highly abstract, and how your eight year old niece accepts the game world simply because it pleases her to do so.

This shall cleanse thy spirit, and thou shall be renewed.
hong's method are outdated and not scientific. He should make the eight year old niece drunk, and then watch how and if she still accepts playing a game of Faery's Tale. :D

FOR SCIENCE!!!
 

Spatula said:
I think you're starting to suffer from oxygen deprivation up there on your high horse. Perhaps you should climb down.
Pretending to be an elf is more fun when you're a bit light headed.
 


Lord Zardoz said:
On top of that, you get the fun of forcing your player to recalculate a bunch of stuff on the fly. Saving throws, attack and damage modifiers, AC, HP, and Spell save DC's for casters is just the obvious stuff. Encumberance and skill checks can also come into play (Dex poison vs mounted combat, etc) A Str poison also affects your Grapple modifier. All these things can be overlooked.

I've never found this much of a problem. I just note down on a sticky note or note card, whenever I'm down some strength, "-4 to strength: -2 to hit, -2 to damage (-3 two-hand), -2 to Strength skills"
And that's usually enough to go with for on-the-fly use of the modified ability. Does it mean calculations? Yes. But they're always done at need when I'm already in the process of modifying a die roll so my brain is already primed for the calculations.

And I have to do this sort of thing a lot considering I have a player whose PC is a shadow dancer and they're fighting a lot of giants without magic weapons. Her shadow companion is sucking giant strength right and left.

If a modifier of a few points gets overlooked every once in a while, it's not a game breaker by any means. Close is good enough.
 


Pistonrager said:
Do you get it yet? Though flavor is important flavor is mutable... and honestly... have you ever had a DM destroy all the equipment something is wearing after the PC's dump fireball after fireball on it? Just because they fluff says something doesn't mean you can assume anything about it's combat use. Also... lead melts very easily... not a point of instant death for anything...

Personally, I think that the fluff should have an influence. Either the fireball melts lead or it doesn't. This makes the choice of whether to use particular spells resource management of a different sort.

You want to recover valuable items an enemy fighter is using? Maybe it's not a good idea to throw five fireballs at him....because if he is carrying valuable documents or plans, they might get burned to a crisp. That magical leather armour might be damaged. His backpack full of coins might combust, and become a fused lump of mishapen coin and leather that can't be easily sold. I *want* my players to have to take that kind of thing into consideration.

Frankly, I'd like the game to be set up in a way where it is similar to many fantasy stories. In many novels, when the characters fight a wizard, it's not the fighter who goes up against the wizard and butchers him in one round with 4 attacks against a low AC. The fighter knows that if he goes against the wizard, he's going to be held, or disintegrated or teleported into a trench in the ocean or whatever, before he ever gets close. Instead, the enemy wizard is an opportunity for the fighter's buddy the mage, to shine, because he has the powers to have a wizardly duel or whatever, and take out the enemy mage, while the fighter deals with the bodyguards, or the demon the enemy wizard summons, or whatever.

Banshee
 


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