ThirdWizard
First Post
I see it as +8 total. I can sort of see the other interprietations, but it isn't how I interpeit it.
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How does Titan Fighting work when fighting giants?
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Endur
First Post
Except that is where Aura Seer's interpretation breaks down. If the racial bonus is expanded to all large targets that you are dodging, then the dodge bonus is +5 all larger targets... +1 for dodge feat + 4 for racial enemy.
The real question in this feat is which bonus is modified. Is the dodge feat bonus of +1 going to +4. Or is the racial bonus of +4 being expanded cover a new category of creatures.
The real question in this feat is which bonus is modified. Is the dodge feat bonus of +1 going to +4. Or is the racial bonus of +4 being expanded cover a new category of creatures.
Corlon said:
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
Note that if you take AuraSeer's point of view, a +5 bonus against a given opponent isn't an option.
You must choose either +4 or +8.
Why?
Because AuraSeer's reading requires that you replace your normal [Feat] Dodge bonus with your [Racial] Dodge bonus when fighting against creatures larger than yourself.
If I select a creature larger than myself as the target of my [Feat] Dodge, the bonus is improved to [Racial] +4.
If it just so happens that that target is also a giant, well, I've already used my Dwarf card; I can't then benefit from my [Racial] +4 again as I'm already using it.
In other words, when you follow AuraSeer's interpretation, a dwarf with Titan Fighting might as well not have the Dodge feat when he's fighting giants; he gets no benefit from it.
I think that's silly.
You must choose either +4 or +8.
Why?
Because AuraSeer's reading requires that you replace your normal [Feat] Dodge bonus with your [Racial] Dodge bonus when fighting against creatures larger than yourself.
If I select a creature larger than myself as the target of my [Feat] Dodge, the bonus is improved to [Racial] +4.
If it just so happens that that target is also a giant, well, I've already used my Dwarf card; I can't then benefit from my [Racial] +4 again as I'm already using it.
In other words, when you follow AuraSeer's interpretation, a dwarf with Titan Fighting might as well not have the Dodge feat when he's fighting giants; he gets no benefit from it.
I think that's silly.
I agree. As I said above, I think the designer forgot to consider that case when he wrote the feat. (Bad designer! No cookie!)Patryn of Elvenshae said:In other words, when you follow AuraSeer's interpretation, a dwarf with Titan Fighting might as well not have the Dodge feat when he's fighting giants; he gets no benefit from it.
I think that's silly.
Jesus_marley
First Post
Re-reading the Feat description, I feel the need to modify my position.
Assuming small size (gnome)....
Versus small opponent - +1 dodge
Versus Medium or larger (non giant) - +4 dodge (substitue +1 with +4)
Versus Giant - +8 dodge (+4 racial dodge bonus, +4 dodge bonus)
You would get your racial +4 bonus automatically versus a giant but you still have the option of employing your dodge feat against one foe. If you choose to do this and it's a giant you apply the +4 instead of the normal +1. Dodge bonuses stack so +8 versus 1 giant opponent. +4 versus one non giant of medium or greater.
Without the feat, you get +5 versus 1 giant opponent, +4 versus all other giants, and +0 versus all non giant opponents.
Ie. a gnome vs. 3 giants would have +8,+4,+4 with the feat. or +5,+4,+4 without. Versus 3 non giant opponents, the gnome would get +4,+0,+0 with the feat, or +1,+0,+0 without. This is only for determining the total "dodge" bonus.
Assuming small size (gnome)....
Versus small opponent - +1 dodge
Versus Medium or larger (non giant) - +4 dodge (substitue +1 with +4)
Versus Giant - +8 dodge (+4 racial dodge bonus, +4 dodge bonus)
You would get your racial +4 bonus automatically versus a giant but you still have the option of employing your dodge feat against one foe. If you choose to do this and it's a giant you apply the +4 instead of the normal +1. Dodge bonuses stack so +8 versus 1 giant opponent. +4 versus one non giant of medium or greater.
Without the feat, you get +5 versus 1 giant opponent, +4 versus all other giants, and +0 versus all non giant opponents.
Ie. a gnome vs. 3 giants would have +8,+4,+4 with the feat. or +5,+4,+4 without. Versus 3 non giant opponents, the gnome would get +4,+0,+0 with the feat, or +1,+0,+0 without. This is only for determining the total "dodge" bonus.
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Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
AuraSeer said:
Yeah! Not even a stale cookie made with substandard chocolate!
Arkhandus
First Post
You get your usual racial bonus against all creatures of the Giant type while using the feat, as normal, but with that feat you can also apply that racial bonus against any creature larger than yourself, not just a Giant, but only against one such non-Giant per round.
I.E. if you're fighting two ogres and a dire bear, assuming you're a dwarf, you'll get your racial +4 dodge bonus against the ogres, and with the feat you can also apply that bonus against the dire bear at the same time, by designating the dire bear as your Dodge feat's target (the racial bonus supersedes the Dodge feat's bonus though, based on the wording of that feat from Races of Stone).
The wording of the feat is ambiguous, but its wording most closely indicates that your racial dodge bonus against Giants is used INSTEAD OF your Dodge feat's bonus versus the targeted enemy. Also by its wording, the closest meaning of it is that this isn't in addition to your racial bonus, but merely an extension of it, so doesn't double the racial bonus against Giants.
I.E. if you're fighting two ogres and a dire bear, assuming you're a dwarf, you'll get your racial +4 dodge bonus against the ogres, and with the feat you can also apply that bonus against the dire bear at the same time, by designating the dire bear as your Dodge feat's target (the racial bonus supersedes the Dodge feat's bonus though, based on the wording of that feat from Races of Stone).
The wording of the feat is ambiguous, but its wording most closely indicates that your racial dodge bonus against Giants is used INSTEAD OF your Dodge feat's bonus versus the targeted enemy. Also by its wording, the closest meaning of it is that this isn't in addition to your racial bonus, but merely an extension of it, so doesn't double the racial bonus against Giants.
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