How dumb are golems?

[Philip]

Interesting. Perhaps my gut instinct is wrong about the golem. I can see your points regarding an optimized party and, since you mentioned you've seen it in play, I won't argue with the effectiveness of summoned creatures. While it seems to me that, in theory, the golem would just blast through enough summoned creatures to clear a path, then move and squash the summoner, perhaps this is not held up in practice.

I mean, were I a wizard creating a golem, that'd be one of my first instructions to the golem. "When engaging intruders, prioritize spellcasters first and summoned creatures last with regards to CRUSHING THE LIFE FROM THEIR BODIES. Engage summoned creatures only if such creatures cannot be bypassed in order to strike spellcasters, or if all other intruders have already been destroyed."

How would your golems be allowed to infer that a particular creature is a summoned one? Recognizing a creature as summoned involves reasoning, and since golems cannot reason, they cannot recognize this. You can probably instruct golems to ignore 'creatures who appear out of thin air', but then they would ignore creatures who teleport into the chamber, or invisibile creatures who become visible after attacking.

The same goes for your 'crushing of life from their bodies'. How would a golem recognize life? Would it not attack undead spellcasters? I think golems are not able to handle abstract concepts such as life. You can instruct Golems to crush opponents until they do not move anymore.

 

[Philip]

Edit to add:As a DM I would never allow this to work. While D&D combat is turn-based, it's meant to represent simultaneous combat. The fighter can spring attack on his turn, but as soon as he hits the golem, it's going to start moving toward him to squash him. Just because its action occurs in the turn-based representation does not mean the golem looks around, sees nothing, and ignores the fact that it was just struck.
[/i]!

This is an unfortunate side-effect of the way the rules work, sometimes it works against you and sometimes it works to your advantage. Still, I can understand your position, and if my DM would rule that the golem would follow the fighter I would not object. And maybe he actually chances into said fighter (who obviously did not make a straight line once vision of him was blocked by the mist). I would think that the Golem is probably instructed to follow whoever attacked him last, which can be turned against the Golem. I would then test how long and how far the Golem would search/follow, and set up an identical situation that would take advantage of this. The golem described in my example probably had instructions to attack anyone he sees, and since at some point (even if he moved after the fighter) he did not see anyone anymore, he stopped attacking and returned to his place.

 

[Gez]

Have you ever chatted with an AI? (If you haven't, check one out, like Alice.)

That's how dumb golems are.

Human: Do you speak french?
ALICE: Oui. Je parle le français.
Human: Parlez-vous français ?
ALICE: No I don't speak a word of French.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

How would your golems be allowed to infer that a particular creature is a summoned one? Recognizing a creature as summoned involves reasoning, and since golems cannot reason, they cannot recognize this.

I disagree. Recognition requires only that, recognition. Since a wizard capable of creating a golem most likely has a killer Spellcraft skill, it can impart the golem with the knowledge of what gestures, sounds, and materials indicate a summoning spell. The golem merely needs to identify such components used in the proper way, and it knows a summoning spell is being cast. The creatures that then appear are summoning creatures.

A golem cannot reason it out without instructions. "Hrm, that guy waved his hands and then the badger just appeared. It must be summoned!" But it can follow directions, and those directions can be complex enough to allow recognition of things the creator expects the golem to come into contact with.

The same goes for your 'crushing of life from their bodies'. How would a golem recognize life? Would it not attack undead spellcasters? I think golems are not able to handle abstract concepts such as life. You can instruct Golems to crush opponents until they do not move anymore.

That was a teaser. An easy instruction would be to, as you say, crush opponents until they do not move anymore. I'd add a rider that once all enemies aren't moving, the golem dismember each of them. Never hurts to be thorough.

What it comes down to is that while a golem cannot reason, it can follow instructions, and (as far as I recall) there is no limit on the number of instructions a creator can give his golem. This means that a golem can be given enough instructions to simulate reasoning, in a very narrow scope. You have to think outside the box to thwart it. Simple ruses will have been anticipated by the (usually very) smart spellcaster, and proper counter-instructions given.

 

[Stalker0]

So in the craft construct feat....should I just assume that the wizard spends twice the amount of time the feat says to make the golem.....half for the construction, half to give it all these complex instructions apparantley every golem have.

 

[dren]

Just like everything else, a golem has certain strengths and weaknesses. In large rooms where missile combat is an option and the party has room to maneuver, fly, etc...they shouldn't be a problem. That's why I like to use them in rooms with large numbers of allies (protecting the master's door, library, treasury.) The party is distracted by live threats, while the golem has time to bash away.

Also, invisible golems in small rooms rock! As long as they are beside the door, anyone trying to enter or leave is attacked and bombarding it with spells is pretty useless...especially if the person/people who go inside the room don't have high enough Knowledge (Arcana) skills to determine what it is that attacked them...and the party might waste it's spells/times trying to figure out what the creature's weaknesses are.

 

[dagger]

I remember this one battle we had involving a special golem that was permantley invisible and was surrounded by a 20' anti-magic zone. It was nasty...

How about this command?

"Attack the target doing the most damage to you."

 

[Trainz]

My players met a Clay Golem two weeks ago.

It took them 2 weeks campaign time to fully recover.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

So in the craft construct feat....should I just assume that the wizard spends twice the amount of time the feat says to make the golem.....half for the construction, half to give it all these complex instructions apparantley every golem have.

Um, no. I don't have a 20 intelligence, but even I wouldn't need more than a day to go through various scenarios my golem is most likely to come across. Someone with a 20 Int (or better) should have no trouble doing it in a few hours.

I'm not suggesting a golem cannot be thwarted. But I am suggesting that it takes more than turning a corner so it can't see you on its turn, or having successive party members attack it so it runs back and forth trying to reach the last person who damaged it, or just sending waves of summoned monsters at it.

 

[yennico]

I remember this one battle we had involving a special golem that was permantley invisible and was surrounded by a 20' anti-magic zone. It was nasty...

Invisible in an anti-magic zone ????? IMHO either invisible and not in an anti-magic zone or not invisible and in an anti-magic zone.
I as GM prefer a golem with an anti-magic zone.
So no with spell magical enhanced arrows or weapons will do damage or haste and other spells are also negated.