D&D 5E How exactly does a Paladin break it's Oath?

[Yunru]

Yes, even looking at the examples given in the PHB, "Evil" is more "amoral", which is subtly different.
Of course "Evil" sounds cooler so it's not going to change.

 

[ccs]

Oaths have mechanical impact. Alignment does not.

You can be an evil paladin in 5E, but you still have to abide by your oath. It doesn't matter if "anyone's watching" or not. There's not some School Principle who's going to punish you, but only if he notices. If you aren't faithful to your oath, you lose your paladin status. Alignment doesn't enter into it, and neither does whether or not you're caught at it.

Yep, just like the alignment requirements of old - merely using different words....

Call it alignment, call it oaths, call it whatever. You violate them & the cosmic powers of the universe (IE; the DM - who sees everything btw) will know & can punish you.

 

[Umbran]

So asking the DMs out there, would you allow a lawful evil Paladin to take an Oath or the Crown, Devotion, or Ancients?

The devil, as they say, is in the details. I could see a LE paladin servant of an evil king, for example.

He'll behave accordingly in company at all times, but will probably "do evil things" in times he thinks he could get away with it. Obviously this character would have no qualms with lying, cheating, stealing, and killing if he thought he could get away with it.

Whether anyone sees it is irrelevant. The Paladin's power comes from their own devotion. You can't hide your actions from yourself.

The paladin, ultimately, views themselves as in service to some ideal. The paladin is *not* all in it for themselves. The paladin who is primarily concerned with personal gain is always going to be in danger of breaking their oath, and having issues.

 

[Yunru]

The devil, as they say, is in the details. I could see a LE paladin servant of an evil king, for example.



Whether anyone sees it is irrelevant. The Paladin's power comes from their own devotion. You can't hide your actions from yourself.

The paladin, ultimately, views themselves as in service to some ideal. The paladin is *not* all in it for themselves. The paladin who is primarily concerned with personal gain is always going to be in danger of breaking their oath, and having issues.

Unless they're Vengeant of course.

 

[Umbran]

Unless they're Vengeant of course.

No, even then. The Oath of Vengeance has tenets about fighting evil, not about personal gain. And no, no narcissist, "My personal gain is the definition of Good," paladins, thank you.

 

[MarkB]

Everyone worries about breaking the oath, but there's also the scenario where the oath becomes irrelevant. What if you're an Oath of the Crown paladin and your king dies without a successor?

In a short-run campaign whose 'hook' was "you've just slain the dragon, now you've got to survive the trip back to town to claim your reward", I played an Oath of Vengeance paladin, the object of whose oath was the dragon that had just been slain, off-screen, before play began. It made for an interestingly conflicted character - Inigo Montoya after he's slain the six-fingered man, only without anyone to suggest a life of piracy as an alternative.

 

[jasper]

How exactly does a Paladin break it's Oath?
left to right during the week. Right to left on the weekend. If covered in chocolate, then down the middle.

 

[Ahrimon]

I can picture an evil oath of the ancients paladin being someone who would kill anyone threatening beauty and art. Similar to the bad guy in Serenity. "I'm making the world a better place." I could also see one that is the type that would be considered totally insane by modern standards and kills to create art. Using body parts in sculptures, blood to create paintings, or even music from the torture of his captives.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Remember, the power now comes from a Paladin's adherence to their Oath, not from a God. How would a Paladin maintain their powers from the Oath of the Crown if they don't believe in the influence of the Crown? They literally couldn't.

Just spitballing:

The power comes from the Oath. So it's not about belief, really, it's about actions. Taking a look at the Tenets of the Crown, here's the Things You Can Do To Break It:

• Law: Willingly and voluntarily disregard or break the laws of your land.
• Loyalty: Oppose your monarch's actions or openly defy and flout their commands.
• Courage: An open and craven display of cowardice; advocating for fleeing your enemies
• Responsibility: Flout your mandated guard duty, fail to submit to punishment for an infraction

As a DM, I'd probably be a little flexy on the Courage angle (as written, just running away from a fight might be considered an infraction), less flexy on the others. But to echo the advice upthread, the specifics of the player's goal for the character probably matters more than anything else.

So you could totally be a law-abiding, loyal, courageous, and responsible kind of Evil. I mean, that's Darth Vader (up until the final moments, anyway). That's the Malfoys. That's half of the "BBEG's Sidekick" characters out there in fiction.

 

[Uchawi]

As a DM, I would probably treat it s a social status, so if an oath is broken then those around the paladin would change how they interact. It would be similar to a samurai becoming a ronin. That way you do not have a rigid on/off system, and only look at things that are obvious and directly opposed, but at the same time allow the paladin to continue to function.