How far ahead do you need to be to stealth without penalty?

[Shiroiken]

Circumstances will determine the details, but as a rule of thumb, I'd say 50-100 feet underground or 100-500 feet overland.

Something that works really well underground is to have the party wait at a point, have the scout move to the next point of interest, then return back to the party. Repeat as needed, and the party's noise/light/ect. shouldn't be an issue. If something bad might happen to the scout, they run back the party ASAP. This actually shouldn't take away from the game either, because while the scout technically "has the spotlight" longer, the DM only has to describe everything once, and the party will make decisions as a whole (rather than the scout deciding for everyone).

 

[Horwath]

in 3.5e it was -1 perception penalty for 10ft distance. In underground with echo it might be -1 for 20ft. in clear valley it could be -1 per 30ft. in forests -1 for 5ft.

A 8 dex fighter with heavy armor would have average stealth of 4.

1st level rogue with expertise in stealth and 16 dex would have average roll of 17.

That would indicate on average 130ft distance from them with respect to the observer to have relative same stealth outcome.

 

[CapnZapp]

I've decided on "two round's worth of move", that is 120 ft by default.

Less in a dense forest, more out in a desert.

Any character gets to decide: stay back two rounds and be safe from having to make a Stealth check. Or stealth ahead and be closer to where the action starts.

 

[CapnZapp]

I've decided on "two round's worth of move", that is 120 ft by default.

Less in a dense forest, more out in a desert.

Any character gets to decide: stay back two rounds and be safe from having to make a Stealth check. Or stealth ahead and be closer to where the action starts.

Do I base this on realistic measurements? No.

D&D is a game. A game should have meaningful choices. Anything less than two rounds is not significant enough.

Being safe from having to make a Stealth check should carry a meaningful cost = missing out on the start of a combat.

Then there's obviously ways to mitigate this. Having the lead scout fall back to close the distance. Be very fast so 120 ft is more like one round than two. Use teleportation abilities to arrive instantly etc.

But I'm not starting out by asking myself "what's a reasonable distance to gain such a Stealth bonus as to effectively pass automatically?"

Instead the question is "passing Stealth checks automatically is a desirable ability (for characters that suck at this skill). What is an appropriate game cost for this?"

Cheers ☺

 

[CapnZapp]

in 3.5e it was -1 perception penalty for 10ft distance. In underground with echo it might be -1 for 20ft. in clear valley it could be -1 per 30ft. in forests -1 for 5ft.

With respect, that's exactly the kind of nitty I'm glad 5E got rid of.

Of course saying nothing isn't better, but all of the above I would have expressed as:

120 ft. Half that when you have "advantage" on terrain; twice that when you have disadvantage.

Boom. Done. Same results with no math, no modifiers, no calculations. That's the 5E way! ☺


PS. Since this just happens to be *exactly* how I already run it, I thank you Horwath for doing the math

 

[Oofta]

Technically, you could be stealthy surrounded by PC bards that are all playing bagpipes assuming you have sufficient cover.

So the real question is how far away before the enemy notices your group. Which in my campaign is a too varied to have a set number. Basically far enough ahead that you can't detect them unless they call out or far enough ahead that even if they detect your group they won't notice you. But it depends on what your goal is. Start combat hidden? Twenty feet may be enough. Surprise your enemy? Depends on terrain, ambient noise, are they watching. Could be twenty feet, could be two hundred.

In other words, ask your DM, because their opinion is the only one that matters.

 

[CapnZapp]

In other words, ask your DM, because their opinion is the only one that matters.

We don't need a public forum for this.

 

[Oofta]

We don't need a public forum for this.

Huh? I mean seriously, WTF? I gave my answer - that it depends on exactly what the OP means (which was not clear) and that there is no one answer. Even in my campaign where I try to be clear on how I personally run stealth there are going to be huge variations, and if someone scouts ahead they basically ask me how far ahead they have to be if I have not made it clear.

People come here asking for advice, sometimes there is no concrete answer because D&D is not a board game.

If you think my answer was somehow violating code of conduct, report me. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here by not reporting your response.

 

[Oofta]

Just to clarify my previous post, the rogue is never at a penalty to their stealth because of their group unless the group is doing something to remove the concealment necessary to hide. I'm assuming the real question is how far away can someone detect someone who is not being stealthy. The OP wants their PC to be far enough ahead to get a chance at detecting or attacking an enemy before the enemy notices the approach of the other PCs.

Imagine the following scenarios.

Scenario 1: It's the middle of a dark and stormy night in the primeval forest. The roaring wind whips the treetops overhead and there are sheets of rain pouring down. It's pitch black except when bolts of lightning crackle from the sky.

The wood elf can be a mere twenty feet ahead of the group, close enough to maintain a telepathic bond with the wizard, confident that the noise of wind and rain will drown out the clanking sounds of his compatriots. He practically stumbles across the bandits huddled around a smoldering fire, cold, wet and miserable. The DM doesn't bother calling for a stealth check because there's there's no chance the bandits will notice him. He gets a surprise round.

Scenario 2: The caves are deadly quiet except for the sound of he occasional drop of water with any hint of noise seemingly amplified down the empty caverns.

The dwarven rogue shakes her head and knows her only hope is to be far enough ahead that her enemy will be alert to danger but not know what direction she is coming from.

She has to be a couple hundred feet away, has no realistic chance of a surprise round but can start combat hidden.

The possibilities outside of these simple scenarios are too enumerable to give specific examples. So the best answer is "it depends", and "if in doubt ask your DM".

 

[Satyrn]

Just to clarify my previous post, the rogue is never at a penalty to their stealth because of their group unless the group is doing something to remove the concealment necessary to hide. I'm assuming the real question is how far away can someone detect someone who is not being stealthy. The OP wants their PC to be far enough ahead to get a chance at detecting or attacking an enemy before the enemy notices the approach of the other PCs.

I couldn't quite tell what the OP's question was exactly, either. I answered it though the OP was asking if the party was discovered, how far away would the scout have to be to not be discovered, too, if his stealthy movement really just entailed tiptoeing up without hiding.

A fundamental question for me in any of these scenarios is what is the scout actually doing by "being stealthy." "Tiptoeing quietly ahead" might result in a radically different ruling than "hiding under the furniture."