How far can a Human see in Starlight?

[KarinsDad]

Here are some vision rules I got a long time ago. I'm not sure where I got them from.


The following chart illustrates the distances at which a man sized figure could be seen. The first two columns indicate the maximum distance. The difficulty of spotting normally ranges from DC 10 to DC 30 where DC 30 is the range in one column and DC 10 is the range for that same thing in the next column, based on the distance and the conditions. So, in clear daylight, it would be a DC 10 spot roll to detect movement at 3000 feet, a DC 11 spot roll to detect movement at 3075 feet, a DC 30 spot roll to detect movement at 4500, etc. It would be a DC 10 spot check to detect a stationary human out in the open at 1500 feet, a DC 11 at 1575 feet, a DC 30 at 3000 feet.

			Movement	Stationary	Type	Identify	Detail
Clear day		4500, 75	3000, 75	1500	300		30
Light rain		3000, 75	1500, 35	800	90		30
Twilight		1500, 30	900, 20		500	90		30
Light fog, snow		1500, 45	600, 15		300	90		30
Moderate fog		275, 5		175, 5		75	45		30
Night, full moon	300, 5		200, 5		100	30		15
Night, half moon	200, 5		100, 2		60	25		10
Night, no moon		150, 4		70, 2		30	15		10
Dense fog, blizzard	30		30		15	15		10

Movement: Farthest you can see anything, only that there is movement.
Stationary: Stationary figures can be seen.
Type: General traits of figure are discernable.
Identify: Enough of figure discernable to remember/identify individuals.
Detail: Small actions can be seen clearly.
Ranges are in feet, and are maximums.
Distances for low light vision are doubled for Twilight and Night viewing with the exception of Detail.

Note: Beyond 30 feet, a Spot roll is necessary to discern the somatic components of a spell when using Spellcraft to counter a spell.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Low-Light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination.

Where is this twice the distance rule? I know an elf gains twice the range from light sources, but I have never seen that elves can double his line of sight in a persistent lighting effect. You use this (made up?) rule saying low light can see twice the distance of normal vision to reverse calculate how far normal vision can see.

How far can a human see in daylight?

There are rules for when you make the first spot check based on terrain, but no maximum for line of site. There are no listed rules on penalties for lighting, aside from the DM assigning a circumstance modifier, or modifying the range increment or penalty.
Maximum spot distance.

I believe line of sight can be nearly infinite, spot penalties would outpace the actual line of sight range. Without RAW support Hypersmurf's derived half the distance rule, the half the distance paradox doesn't exist.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Where is this twice the distance rule?

The description of Low-Light Vision in the PHB under Elf, Gnome, and Half-Elf; the description of Low-Light Vision in the MM under Monster Abilities.

It's a made-up rule, but it was the designers who made it up, not me

-Hyp.

 

[BalazarIago]

There are three things to consider when trying to figure out how far someone can see.

Whether or not there is a direct line of sight (including issues of cover/concealment)

How bright the light at the target.

How bright the light is at the individual.

The light at the target will determine how well your going to see them at maximum effect. Everything else is related to penalties. If there are trees, shrubs or people inbetween you and the target, that will give some penalities. If the light in your area is brighter than the surrounding area, then that will effect your 'night sight'.

A further penalty would be the distance between the target and yourself. I believe a -2 for every 30' is the standard rule for spot.

 

[andargor]

Off-Topic
What's a "poster C response" if I may ask?

Historical reference.

Andargor

 

[KarinsDad]

A further penalty would be the distance between the target and yourself. I believe a -2 for every 30' is the standard rule for spot.

Where did you find this rule?

Btw, it is not much of a rule. With proper contrast and light, people can spot a moving man sized target at a mile and this would prevent it for most characters at 300 feet.

You can also shoot a target with a composite longbow at 1100 feet in the game and be at only -20 to hit, but this rule would make you -72 to spot a target you are only -20 to hit.

A rule of -2 to Spot for every 150 feet would be more reasonable when compared to the Range Increment rules.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Where did you find this rule?

It's -1 per 10 feet, but it's only applicable for Spot checks used to determine the distance at which an encounter begins.

Spot checks may be called for to determine the distance at which an encounter begins. A penalty applies on such checks, depending on the distance between the two individuals or groups, and an additional penalty may apply if the character making the Spot check is distracted (not concentrating on being observant).

Condition                Penalty 
Per 10 feet of distance     –1 
Spotter distracted          –5

-Hyp.

 

[Sejs]

Game mechanics aside, part of the reason candlelight isn't a good way to see is because the light illuminates practically nothing and blinds you at the same time.

In part, yes. Depends on where you hold the candle, though. If the candle's in your sight you definitly get glared on account of candles not being directional. If you hold it outside of your visual arc it's not so much a problem, however.

I see much better on a clear starry night in the wilderness than I do indoors with a candle. Once your eyes adjust, you can see well enough not to walk into anything, although maybe not well enough to fight.

Fair enough, but as a counterpoint, I see better outside on a clear starry night in the wilderness with a candle then I do outside on a clear starry night without one. Assuming as above it's not glaring me.

A half-moon is enough to operate by easily, and a full moon is enough to read by. Visibility under a full moon, assuming no overhead foliage and a clear sky, is at least a few hundred yards.

Operate in a basic capacity, sure, not stumbling over things that arn't obscured, picking out outline and movement. I can say, however, that I have never been able to read by full moonlight outside of situations where there was a crapton of snow on the ground reflecting the light back up. See the book, yeah, make out words, no.

Past that distance, I'm not sure how elves are making their spot checks, with the range penalties.

It's one of their elf superpowers granted by having pointy ears and being pretty. I'm pretty sure there's a subrace that expands on the ability even further, somewhere.

 

[KarinsDad]

It's -1 per 10 feet, but it's only applicable for Spot checks used to determine the distance at which an encounter begins.

Spot checks may be called for to determine the distance at which an encounter begins. A penalty applies on such checks, depending on the distance between the two individuals or groups, and an additional penalty may apply if the character making the Spot check is distracted (not concentrating on being observant).

Flat plains, groups 500 feet apart heading directly towards each other in broad daylight.

DM: Ok, give me a Spot roll at -50. Nobody made it? Ok.
DM: You move 60 feet (and so does the opponents). Ok, give me a Spot roll at -38. Nobody made it? Ok.
DM: You move 60 feet. Ok, give me a Spot roll at -26. Nobody made it? Ok.
DM: You move 60 feet. Ok, give me a Spot roll at -14. Nobody made it? Ok.
DM: You move 60 feet. Ok, give me a Spot roll at -2. Finally! You guys are SO blind. You see an army 20 feet in front of you. What do you do?

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

IIRC the rule on encounters is that a failed check at the intial distance results in automatic spot at half that.

KarinsDad, I think there was a table similar to that in an earlier version.