D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

[Thomas Shey]

Ok other hyperbolic.
10000 starving man comes at the gate. They can only feed a few or the town will starve too. Flip a coin until only 100 are allowed to get in. All agree. Losers must understand that sometimes, you are simply not lucky.

Unfair... same situation. 10000 starving man. Only those that have black hair can enter. Red hair guys are slain on the spot. No one agreed to that. But that is how it works.
Even more unfair: 5000 are still in line. We change the rule, only those that weigths less than 150 pounds are allowed.

Hyperbolic examples are not necessarily the best. It may help to get a point across to show that some situations can deteriorate, but in this case, another hyperbolic can show even worse. Arbitrary ruling depending on the taste of the authority.

The fact things can be more unfair does not seem to make the argument I think you believe it does.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Old School: Just flat out ignoring/begrudgingly accepting things that you consider unfair

New School: Complain loudly about things you consider unfair untill there's enough cultural shift that WOTC will change it for you

 

[theCourier]

That's a terribly negative way to misrepresent both sides. A lot of the "old school" doesn't find rolling up characters to be unfair or a hassle, while the "new school" just wants to be able to have more agency in the char creation process. Nothing wrong with either of those preferences, the only thing is they require a different mindset going into the game. And tho modern D&D does lean one way, the great thing is there's plenty of systems out there that still enforce random char creation for those that want it.

 

[tetrasodium]

That's a terribly negative way to misrepresent both sides. A lot of the "old school" doesn't find rolling up characters to be unfair or a hassle, while the "new school" just wants to be able to have more agency in the char creation process. Nothing wrong with either of those preferences, the only thing is they require a different mindset going into the game. And tho modern D&D does lean one way, the great thing is there's plenty of systems out there that still enforce random char creation for those that want it.

It might be negative, but the omissions from modern d&d alongside the fact that dmg270 has a pointless speed factor & there is a UA for an expanded version of it but not any of the omissions that have been discussed gives it credible footing

 

[Thomas Shey]

That's a terribly negative way to misrepresent both sides. A lot of the "old school" doesn't find rolling up characters to be unfair or a hassle, while the "new school" just wants to be able to have more agency in the char creation process. Nothing wrong with either of those preferences, the only thing is they require a different mindset going into the game. And tho modern D&D does lean one way, the great thing is there's plenty of systems out there that still enforce random char creation for those that want it.

Well, that is another issue that can come up here with some people: They'd really like D&D to be serving their specific needs, because they figure (if consciously or not) that'll make it easier to find compatible players.

I really get that; as someone who mostly plays games outside the D&D-sphere, finding new players can sometimes be non-trivial, and when finding ones with compatible tastes it can get downright difficult.

But the usually-unstated wish here can, I think, complicate these discussions because it gets subsumed in other things.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Mod Note:

Tell me you haven’t read the ENWorld community rules lately without telling me you haven’t read the ENWorld community rules lately.

Old School: Just flat out ignoring/begrudgingly accepting things that you consider unfair

New School: Complain loudly about things you consider unfair untill there's enough cultural shift that WOTC will change it for you

Excellent example! Just close enough to being anti-inclusive without actually crossing the line by using explicit terminology. But still forgetting the terms listed are not an exhaustive list.

Be better going forward.

 

[MichaelSomething]

At least I'm being fair by treating each side the same.

Edit: I'll need to explain my self in depth once I get on an actual computer instead of my phone...

That's a terribly negative way to misrepresent both sides.

 

[Azzy]

Or they’re persuaded that rolling fairly for stats and lucking into a paladin actually is fair. Some people have a different view of the game and what is fair within it than you or Thomas Shey do. For some people, the character generation mini game, complete with random elements, is part of the game and not the prelude. That’s particularly evident among Traveller players with its table driven character generation or R.Talsorian’s life paths.

R.Talsorian’s lifepaths are a bit different—as a lot of it you can either roll or choose (and rolling doesn't involve potentially killilling your character or stopping you from meaningful choices—like a characters' role or temnplate).

 

[Micah Sweet]

No they weren’t.

No dm ever generated npcs by randomly rolling stats.

It's in the rules, in 1st, 2nd and 3rd ed. You can't speak for the community in general as far as whether or not those rules were followed, and neither can I.

 

[Azzy]

It's in the rules, in 1st, 2nd and 3rd ed. You can't speak for the community in general as far as whether or not those rules were followed, and neither can I.

In 1e, NPCs were rolled differently from PCS. I posted the relevant rules from the 1e DMG earlier.