D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

[DarkCrisis]

Anime wasnt as big a thing back in the day so of course since its a much larger thing now its going to influence other media/games. So yeah modern D&D is influenced by anime (and WoW/MMOs).

Heck a lot of kids I see around today color their hair loud colors and/or try to dress (and act) more like an anime character.

I remember when I had to go to the special section at Suncoast Video to find a few episodes of an anime on VHS and pay a premium price for it. A whole set of Tenchi new was like a coupe hundred bucks or more. Or like Ninja Scroll was just $30 new.

Expensive hobby to be an anime fan back in the day.

 

[overgeeked]

Will Turner was the son of a pirate, an orphan saved from a shipwreck, became a master blacksmith and accomplished fencer, and he had 0 xp when Jack Sparrow snuck into his shop.

Right. So when a player comes to my table and their backstory is Will Turner from the end of the most recent Pirates movie and absurdly thinks that fits for a 0 XP 1st-level character is what I'm talking about. Will is a 1st-level fighter with practically nothing for a backstory at the start of the first Pirates movie. Jack is also not trying to kill the kid, he's trying to escape. Will's simply delaying Jack.

Luke Skywalker was the son of The greatest Jedi in history, an accomplished brush pilot and excellent droid mechanic when he chased Artoo into the desert and met ObiWan. Luke still had 0 xp.

Yep. But Luke hasn't done anything yet. He has a few skills and the Force. He's not a full-blown Jedi Knight with a lightsaber who's already defeated the Emperor, saved the universe, and brought peace to the galaxy...while still only having 0 XP. That's the kind of absurdity I get handed as a DM.

Harry Potter was the child of two wizards who were slain by the BBEG, and who gave him a foretelling scar. When Hagrid came through the door to advise "The Boy who Lived' he was a wizard, Harry had 0 xp.

Yeah, and again...

I guess you can make an argument that based on origins, Will, Luke and Harry should be more than 1st level. Will crossed blades with a notorious pirate and held his own. Luke could bullseye 2 meter wamp rats with his T-16. Harry already defeated the BBEG once! But the point is a lot of heroes have great deeds before their story ever started. I don't see why D&D characters can't either.

You could try, but you'd fail. You're assuming that luck and the Force have nothing to do with anything. You're also forgetting that version of Luke is from the end of the movie, not the beginning, so Luke has all that experience when he finally makes that shot. Plus the Force Ghost pep-talk. Same with Harry. Harry didn't defeat Voldemort prior to the first book, he simply survived an attack. There's a huge difference. At the end of the first Harry Potter book, after a full year of adventures and magical study...then Harry defeats Voldemort.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You see, there are two schools of thought for this.
The first one is yours. We see it all the time in movies. The character is already powerful, do wonderful, never misses and never ever fail. Guess, what? Series and movies like this get boring pretty quickly, might feel good when they are written but actually perform poorly with the audience and are soon forgotten.

Okay, let's start with the gross mischaracterization you open up with.

Just because I don't want to start as the farmboy and go through the training parts of their story doesn't mean I want the character to be perfect and never fail. You're reading in negative attributes to try and bolster your playstyle as inherently better. Stop this crap. Being competent, having options and not starting the game at zero do not inherently perfect make, nor is lol random death the only means of failure. If anything all the talk of character death being the only means of loss or failure just points to a dearth of imagination.

Second, the idea that competent characters can't be interesting or long-lived is ludicrous. Ever hear of James Bond? Tony Stark? Or my favorite example of competence porn, the entire cast of Leverage? Oh yeah, flashes in the pan, all.

 

[Helldritch]

Will Turner was the son of a pirate, an orphan saved from a shipwreck, became a master blacksmith and accomplished fencer, and he had 0 xp when Jack Sparrow snuck into his shop

He simple took the blacksmith, athletics and acrobatic skills and and he could not even navigate. At some point, you might even say that Jack was playing with him in the fencing match. In my book, Will took the "Lucky" background. That saved his neck more than once.

Luke Skywalker was the son of The greatest Jedi in history, an accomplished brush pilot and excellent droid mechanic when he chased Artoo into the desert and met ObiWan. Luke still had 0 xp.

Hey, hunting when you have all the time in the world to shoot isn't the same thing as shooting in battle or under stress. And for the skills, yep, Luke took droid mechanics as a skill. Way better than not having it isn't it? He started his training in the light saber in the Millenium Falcon and was failing a lot! It took the guidance of Obi Wan to make him succeed a few parries (in 1ed he was training to be 2nd level). And even then, Luke could barely lift rocks in the second movie. Luke was still low level and his apprenticeship was nowhere finished.

Harry Potter was the child of two wizards who were slain by the BBEG, and who gave him a foretelling scar. When Hagrid came through the door to advise "The Boy who Lived' he was a wizard, Harry had 0 xp.

A wizard unable to cast a simple spell because he had no training. Not even a cantrip like oculus reparo... As for defeating the BBEG, if you read the novels, Harry had help and the BBEG was but a shadow of itself. A simple memory and even with help Harry almost failed.

I guess you can make an argument that based on origins, Will, Luke and Harry should be more than 1st level. Will crossed blades with a notorious pirate and held his own. Luke could bullseye 2 meter wamp rats with his T-16. Harry already defeated the BBEG once! But the point is a lot of heroes have great deeds before their story ever started. I don't see why D&D characters can't either.

Nope, they should exactly be 1st level. But that is my POV. I might be wrong. But rule wise in 1ed and even 5ed it works out quite well.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You must not have watched a lot of anime or played with modern gamers.

More like ignoring literally thousands of characters in backstories to cherry pick to create a specific false narrative.

We were just talking about Slayers, where the one sad backstory is Zelgadis where Gourry is a happy idiots with family back home, Amelia has a loving and dopey father and er... 'missing' sister, and Lena has a sister who is best friends with several gods.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Will is a 1st-level fighter with practically nothing for a backstory at the start of the first Pirates movie.

A self taught fencer capable of balancing on beams while fighting an more skilled opponent who was the sole survivor extracted from a shipwreck with a mysterious coin in his hand left to him by his father who is the missing piece of an ancient curse and the only one of his crew doomed to never be freed from it.

Nope. Basically nothing for backstory.

 

[Helldritch]

Okay, let's start with the gross mischaracterization you open up with.

Just because I don't want to start as the farmboy and go through the training parts of their story doesn't mean I want the character to be perfect and never fail. You're reading in negative attributes to try and bolster your playstyle as inherently better. Stop this crap. Being competent, having options and not starting the game at zero do not inherently perfect make, nor is lol random death the only means of failure. If anything all the talk of character death being the only means of loss or failure just points to a dearth of imagination.

Second, the idea that competent characters can't be interesting or long-lived is ludicrous. Ever hear of James Bond? Tony Stark? Or my favorite example of competence porn, the entire cast of Leverage? Oh yeah, flashes in the pan, all.

Again, if your character can't do what you wrote in your background story with 5 natural 20, then your story is simply BS! A lie your character tells other but when faced with a real challenge, that character simply falls apart.

James Bond did not became JB all of a sudden. Read the novels. He was trained by the bests to be one of the bests (as are all 00). Tony Stark was a genius but a genius that was constantly working. When he became Iron Man, either in the movies or in the books, he made many mistakes. He grew. And got very lucky.

 

[HammerMan]

Will Turner was the son of a pirate, an orphan saved from a shipwreck, became a master blacksmith and accomplished fencer, and he had 0 xp when Jack Sparrow snuck into his shop

Luke Skywalker was the son of The greatest Jedi in history, an accomplished brush pilot and excellent droid mechanic when he chased Artoo into the desert and met ObiWan. Luke still had 0 xp.

Harry Potter was the child of two wizards who were slain by the BBEG, and who gave him a foretelling scar. When Hagrid came through the door to advise "The Boy who Lived' he was a wizard, Harry had 0 xp.

I guess you can make an argument that based on origins, Will, Luke and Harry should be more than 1st level. Will crossed blades with a notorious pirate and held his own. Luke could bullseye 2 meter wamp rats with his T-16. Harry already defeated the BBEG once! But the point is a lot of heroes have great deeds before their story ever started. I don't see why D&D characters can't either.

in general I am okay with "I did 1 thing of note, and here are 3-5 plot hooks in my backstory" (and I think all of those count as that)

However we mostly start at 3rd level

I have seen some... master pieces for low level backgrounds though... things I'm like "Wait is this character ready to retire from a different campaign?"

EX1: a player who brought a 1 page background that introduced a guild (he already saved) 2 BBEGs to add to the campaign (he already humiliated/set back) and 3 magic items that his parents left him at his house...

EX2 (same player) brought a background where (I had told them they were going to be hired by the prince) he was the younger brother to the prince, and he was a FOP near do well... but his bodyguard was legendary (Wait for the iron man twist) and his brother is asking him to join but he will most likely be to affraid... and send his bodyguard who is really himself...

I worked with both but they both were just at the line.

 

[HammerMan]

He simple took the blacksmith, athletics and acrobatic skills and and he could not even navigate. At some point, you might even say that Jack was playing with him in the fencing match. In my book, Will took the "Lucky" background. That saved his neck more than once.

I think
'protaganist' is the background... and plot armor is the feature

 

[HammerMan]

Again, if your character can't do what you wrote in your background story with 5 natural 20, then your story is simply BS! A lie your character tells other but when faced with a real challenge, that character simply falls apart.

I would go so far as to say "if we were going to run your background as an adventure...would you be okay with this level of challange"

James Bond did not became JB all of a sudden. Read the novels. He was trained by the bests to be one of the bests (as are all 00). Tony Stark was a genius but a genius that was constantly working. When he became Iron Man, either in the movies or in the books, he made many mistakes. He grew. And got very lucky.

but Iron man DID have a first appearance, he DID get captured and make an armor (so he had to be a level 3 artificer) in origin