How helpful is blindsense?

[javcs]

Darkstalker is also in CAdv. Makes creatures possessed of blindsight, blindsense, temorsense, or scent must make a spot or listen (higher DC) to notice you. Plus has the added bonus of being able to flank something with all-around vision.
It's one of the best feats available to those characters that focus on stealth in general, and really good for rogues in particular.
Nothing at all about modifiers to adjust the checks required to notice the hiding/moving silently character.

I second frank's call for location of these modifiers to hide/move silently checks to avoid blindsense.

Blindsense isn't an auto-success on listen checks - you don't even need to make them whatsoever, in most cases, and you automatically pinpoint creatures within range, successful listen checks don't necessarily pinpoint creatures. But, yeah, I will admit that it is essentially an auto-success.

 

[boolean]

Darkstalker is also in CAdv.

Are you sure? It isn't in the regular feat section.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

The creature with blindsense usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice and locate creatures within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature.

Helpless: A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy.

Sleeping = helpless = not a normal condition. Which is why the entry for blindsense says usually and not always.
Sneaking up on a sleeping creature, blindsense or no, is still Listen check at -10 vs Move Silently check.

Quotes straight from the SRD.

Spoonfed to you for your enjoyment.

 

[Joker]

Sleeping = helpless = not a normal condition. Which is why the entry for blindsense says usually and not always.
Sneaking up on a sleeping creature, blindsense or no, is still Listen check at -10 vs Move Silently check.

Quotes straight from the SRD.

Spoonfed to you for your enjoyment.

You should know that even direct quotes from the SRD can be interpreted and twisted in many different ways on these boards. Just sayin': RAW doesn't prove anything .

N.B. I wasn't refuting your point, just pointing out the futility of arguing the rules.

 

[javcs]

Are you sure? It isn't in the regular feat section.

Mark that as a mental derailment.

How that happened I don't know.

 

[frankthedm]

Sleeping = helpless = not a normal condition. Which is why the entry for blindsense says usually and not always.
Sneaking up on a sleeping creature, blindsense or no, is still Listen check at -10 vs Move Silently check.

Quotes straight from the SRD.

Spoonfed to you for your enjoyment.

In games you run that may be the case. The rules text is not clear on if blindsence works while sleeping. That was why I suggested the OP speak with his DM on the matter.

I feel both "Blindsence does not help while sleeping." and "Blindsence does help while sleeping.” are valid ways to run blindsence. The latter amusingly brings the ruleset back full circle to one again those who come across a sleeping dragon have a [surprise] round to attack the dragon at +2 to hit [in addition to it being flat footed].

 

[javcs]

In games you run that may be the case. The rules text is not clear on if blindsence works while sleeping. That was why I suggested the OP speak with his DM on the matter.

I feel both "Blindsence does not help while sleeping." and "Blindsence does help while sleeping.” are valid ways to run blindsence. The latter amusingly brings the ruleset back full circle to one again those who come across a sleeping dragon have a [surprise] round to attack the dragon at +2 to hit [in addition to it being flat footed].

The really amusing thing is if they win initiative after their surprise round, they can attempt to CDG the dragon.

 

[Stalker0]

The really amusing thing is if they win initiative after their surprise round, they can attempt to CDG the dragon.

And then the dragon with its massive fort saves laughs at your foolish attempt and eats you

 

[javcs]

And then the dragon with its massive fort saves laughs at your foolish attempt and eats you

Well, yes, but, even dragons fail on nat 1s . . . they might get lucky. And in any event, I did say amusing.
Plus, they're probably doing enough damage to force massive damage saves, well, the brute meleeers at least, at levels where they can sneak up on dragons.

I don't know about you, but I don't really like the image of dragons being able to be (relatively) easily snuck up on, there's a reason they've got their keen senses, and then CDGed multiple times with sneak attack and massive power attacks, that just sorta doesn't float well for me.

Though, in interest of balanced statements, I must say that a DM could, with RAW justification, rule either way on the issue.

On a slight tangent, the same goes for blindsight.

 

[lukelightning]

Dragons should be sneakupable. In classic D&D play a good percentage of dragons you encountered were sleeping and just begging to be beat up.