How Important is Magic to Dungeons and Dragons? - Third Edition vs Fourth Edition

[fanboy2000]

So, the ability changes the nature of its target?

And, it is only usable by a select few?

And, it is not magic?

So, I'm DMing a 3.5 game about 2 years ago. The fighter uses his spiked chain to hit an orc two squares away. The Orc is now bleeding and almost dead. (The spiked chain has changed the nature of the target.) A spiked chain is usable only by a select few. It is not magic.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

So, the ability changes the nature of its target?

It change the game world. Like my decision to have the character swing a sword also changes the game world.

And, it is only usable by a select few?

Yes, like Power Attack, Weapon Finesse or Hide in Shadows.

And, it is not magic?

No, it's a game rule.

 

[LostSoul]

Does this 'Come and get it' thing require a saving throw roll vs. a defence? Or is it automatic? Is there a duration? Do they get a saving throw every round or something?

I'm not wanting to derail the discussion about whether it's magic, at all; it's just that I um, don't know how it works.

Come And Get It moves everyone within a short range next to you, provided they can get there. There's no roll. Once there, you get to attack them. They can act normally on their turn.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Come And Get It moves everyone within a short range next to you, provided they can get there. There's no roll. Once there, you get to attack them. They can act normally on their turn.

OK, thanks. I did read the three core books when they came out. But yeah, that was a while ago.

 

[fanboy2000]

I'm not wanting to derail the discussion about whether it's magic, at all; it's just that I um, don't know how it works.

Dude, this thread is a derailment of a derailment. I think the last post on topic was made 10 pages ago by a guy with the screen name "Not Me."

Anyways, here are important parts of the power:

Come and Get It
You call your opponents toward you and deliver a blow they will never forget.

Effect: You pull each target 2 squares to a space adjacent to you. You cannot pull a target that cannot end adjacent to you. You then make a close attack targeting each adjacent enemy.
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.

Note that the target, if capable, come for the fighter, no attact roll needed for that. The only attack roll needed is for that actual hitting part. And, for what it's worth, the power requires a weapon.

Edit: D'oh! Beaten to it.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Does this 'Come and get it' thing require a saving throw roll vs. a defence? Or is it automatic? Is there a duration? Do they get a saving throw every round or something?

I'm not wanting to derail the discussion about whether it's magic, at all; it's just that I um, don't know how it works.

Its just an implementation of challenging shout from WOW. Its a way to suddenly pull aggro off the squishies. The programming code says that it works when you mash the button and the mobs are compelled to obey.

 

[LostSoul]

So, the ability changes the nature of its target?

I think this is the big issue.

Would you let a PC, using mundane means only, dictate the actions of an NPC with the successful resolution of the PC's action?


I'd rather they designed the martial powers with an "opt-out" clause, letting the DM allow NPCs to resist these kinds of effects if he deems that they would. If they resist, something bad happens to them. Stunned until the end of their next turn, for example, or psychic damage that causes them to cower in abject fear if reduced to 0 HP.

(I don't think there are any mindless creatures in 4E. I'm glad for that, mindless creatures who take actions on their own don't make any sense to me. They'd be better off as traps.)

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

OK, thanks. I did read the three core books when they came out. But yeah, that was a while ago.

It would be a miracle if you knew all the powers after a read-through. I only know this power because it's cool .

 

[Raven Crowking]

So, I'm DMing a 3.5 game about 2 years ago. The fighter uses his spiked chain to hit an orc two squares away. The Orc is now bleeding and almost dead. (The spiked chain has changed the nature of the target.) A spiked chain is usable only by a select few. It is not magic.

I would not say that being damaged changes the nature of the target. It changes the condition of the target. These are two seperate things.

A spiked chain, BTW, is not usable only by a select few. AFAICT, anyone in 3.5 can pick up a spiked chain and make an attack roll.


RC

 

[billd91]

I think this is the big issue.

Would you let a PC, using mundane means only, dictate the actions of an NPC with the successful resolution of the PC's action?


I'd rather they designed the martial powers with an "opt-out" clause, letting the DM allow NPCs to resist these kinds of effects if he deems that they would. If they resist, something bad happens to them. Stunned until the end of their next turn, for example, or psychic damage that causes them to cower in abject fear if reduced to 0 HP.

Nothing bad should happen to them, if you ask me. The "opt-out" clause should be a successful defense on the target's part (in other words, a failed attack by the PC). So for something like "Come and Get It", I would prefer an attack vs the target's Will defense first to see if they fall for the taunt (or bluff or any other effect that will change their willful behavior). If that were there, I'd be content with it.