How is 2nd Edition?
- Thread starter Sebastian1992
- Start date
jdrakeh
Front Range Warlock
First, I love your avatar!
Second, if you're interested in AD&D 2e, my suggestions are as follow:
1. Stick to the Revised core books (black cover PHB, DMG, and MM).
2. Avoid the rule supplements (e.g., Complete Books of X and X Options books).
Out of the core three Revised core rule books, AD&D 2e is actually a very well put together system. Although it is a drier read than AD&D 1e it is also explained much more clearly (as Korgoth mentions). It's important to avoid the first AD&D 2e core books, as some of them had significant printing errors (such as missing or duplicated pages).
The good news is that, mechanically, the system basics of AD&D 1e and 2e are nearly identical — meaning that it's easy to use AD&D 1e adventures with 2e rules and vice-versa (though the only 2e adventures really worth owning are the Return to the Tomb of Horrors and Night Below boxed sets, IMHO). Picking up things like the 1e Fiend Folio and Deities & Demigods for use in your 2e games can't hurt.
I ran an AD&D 1e/2e hybrid off and on for a few years using the Revised AD&D 2e core books and a 1e PHB for certain class/race options missing from the 2e PHB. Likewise, the first AD&D campaign that I played in was a similar hybrid using the AD&D 1e core books (as well as the Fiend Folio) and some options from the 2e PHB.
Second, if you're interested in AD&D 2e, my suggestions are as follow:
1. Stick to the Revised core books (black cover PHB, DMG, and MM).
2. Avoid the rule supplements (e.g., Complete Books of X and X Options books).
Out of the core three Revised core rule books, AD&D 2e is actually a very well put together system. Although it is a drier read than AD&D 1e it is also explained much more clearly (as Korgoth mentions). It's important to avoid the first AD&D 2e core books, as some of them had significant printing errors (such as missing or duplicated pages).
The good news is that, mechanically, the system basics of AD&D 1e and 2e are nearly identical — meaning that it's easy to use AD&D 1e adventures with 2e rules and vice-versa (though the only 2e adventures really worth owning are the Return to the Tomb of Horrors and Night Below boxed sets, IMHO). Picking up things like the 1e Fiend Folio and Deities & Demigods for use in your 2e games can't hurt.
I ran an AD&D 1e/2e hybrid off and on for a few years using the Revised AD&D 2e core books and a 1e PHB for certain class/race options missing from the 2e PHB. Likewise, the first AD&D campaign that I played in was a similar hybrid using the AD&D 1e core books (as well as the Fiend Folio) and some options from the 2e PHB.
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Remathilis
Legend
Generally speaking, 2e's core books attempted to take the sprawling mess 1e's system had become and condense it into a neat, orderly system.
And then TSR promptly glutted the market with supplements, turning 2e into a big, sprawling mess.
Typically speaking, there a 6 ways to play 2e. Each DM needs to pick the format he's comfortable with:
1.) Default. (Core Books only) AKA revised 1e. This version only uses the hardback books (PHB, DMG, MM, ToM) and occasional modules and such. Its pretty much like playing a easy to understand and clean version of 1e.
2.) Default + PO. Same as above, but adding the Players Option Books (C&T, S&P, S&M) and the DMG options (HLC) to the mix. This radically shifts the power and feel of the game and can lead itself to a very complicated (but still fun) system. DM's be warned though, there is MAJOR power creep here.
3.) Default + Complete Books. Again the default books are assumed, but this adds Kits and alternate rules from the Complete Books (Fighter, Priest, Wizard, Thief, Bard, Druid, Ranger, Paladin, Elves, Dwaves, Gnomes and Halflings) as well as some new classes/races (Psionics, Ninjas, Barbarians, Humanoids). Balance here gets splotchy; some stuff is too good (elven bladesingers) some too poor (Complete Priest Specialty Priests) so a DM has to be REAL careful what he allows here, for balance sake.
4.) Default + Setting. This assumes your using published setting (Greyhawk, Realms, Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Planescape, Al-Qadim, etc) and all related supplements. Rarely did I ever see a setting where balance was greatly out of whack (well, Realm's Specialty Priests border on that) but overall this is what most people think of when they recall fond memories of 2e.
5.) Default + Complete/PO + Setting. Pretty obvious. Option four mixed with 2 or 3. The most inclusive, the hardest to maintain balance.
6.) Pre-3e. The last category. This version uses a lot of PO material mixed with some Complete and some Setting material to create something close to what 3e would become. It doesn't change overall systems greatly from the Default, but it does included revised spell/domain lists, additional classes/races, attacks of opportunity, new spells and magic items, and a hefty dose of house-rules. Many people playing from 1997-1999 played this out of necessity. Its also kinda a "anything within reason" goes and requires a lot of dilligence on the DM to keep fair play.
Subtle variants of each occur, of course. It also ignores wildly different houseruled versions. Note: Player's Options were generally designed to supersede the Complete line, so you rarely see the two in use together (barring odd exceptions like a Complete Humanoids Race or Psionics).
And then TSR promptly glutted the market with supplements, turning 2e into a big, sprawling mess.
Typically speaking, there a 6 ways to play 2e. Each DM needs to pick the format he's comfortable with:
1.) Default. (Core Books only) AKA revised 1e. This version only uses the hardback books (PHB, DMG, MM, ToM) and occasional modules and such. Its pretty much like playing a easy to understand and clean version of 1e.
2.) Default + PO. Same as above, but adding the Players Option Books (C&T, S&P, S&M) and the DMG options (HLC) to the mix. This radically shifts the power and feel of the game and can lead itself to a very complicated (but still fun) system. DM's be warned though, there is MAJOR power creep here.
3.) Default + Complete Books. Again the default books are assumed, but this adds Kits and alternate rules from the Complete Books (Fighter, Priest, Wizard, Thief, Bard, Druid, Ranger, Paladin, Elves, Dwaves, Gnomes and Halflings) as well as some new classes/races (Psionics, Ninjas, Barbarians, Humanoids). Balance here gets splotchy; some stuff is too good (elven bladesingers) some too poor (Complete Priest Specialty Priests) so a DM has to be REAL careful what he allows here, for balance sake.
4.) Default + Setting. This assumes your using published setting (Greyhawk, Realms, Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Planescape, Al-Qadim, etc) and all related supplements. Rarely did I ever see a setting where balance was greatly out of whack (well, Realm's Specialty Priests border on that) but overall this is what most people think of when they recall fond memories of 2e.
5.) Default + Complete/PO + Setting. Pretty obvious. Option four mixed with 2 or 3. The most inclusive, the hardest to maintain balance.
6.) Pre-3e. The last category. This version uses a lot of PO material mixed with some Complete and some Setting material to create something close to what 3e would become. It doesn't change overall systems greatly from the Default, but it does included revised spell/domain lists, additional classes/races, attacks of opportunity, new spells and magic items, and a hefty dose of house-rules. Many people playing from 1997-1999 played this out of necessity. Its also kinda a "anything within reason" goes and requires a lot of dilligence on the DM to keep fair play.
Subtle variants of each occur, of course. It also ignores wildly different houseruled versions. Note: Player's Options were generally designed to supersede the Complete line, so you rarely see the two in use together (barring odd exceptions like a Complete Humanoids Race or Psionics).
It's funny -- all the fluff is why the 2E MM will have a place at my table no matter what edition I am running, the same way that the 1E DMG will.
frankthedm
First Post
2E's rules were tepid. Settings were awesome. The Monstrous Manual IS a great book though. The loose leaf Monster Compendiums are nice, but they NEED better [tighter] binding than a 3-ring binder {I had good luck with those 'Paper folder with clipping binder area']
I'd really recommend just DL'ing the free OSRIC rules, which are roughly the 1e rules. Most worthwhile 2E stuff should work with OSRIC just fine.
I'd really recommend just DL'ing the free OSRIC rules, which are roughly the 1e rules. Most worthwhile 2E stuff should work with OSRIC just fine.
I had more fun with 2e than any other system. We, of course, called them demons and devils and didn't do the politically correct thing of baatezu and whatever. I liked the complete class handbooks, but thats it for the supplements. The loose leaf monster manual drove me nuts. Get the hardcover one if you can. I am not a fan of the 3.x feat system, so 2e is not lacking in that regard, and for me the skill system in 2e was just about the right level of detail needed. I did like the thief skills of 2e over 1e in that for the first time you had control over the style of thief you were thru skills. I liked that the monsters didn't have classes, and the skills and feats that go with classes. Overall, if my group would go back to 2e I would be happiest.
Philotomy Jurament
First Post
2e Core = It's like the preserved corpse of 1e; almost the same, and almost lifelike, but with all the soul sucked out.
2e Core + Splat & Supplements = As above, but it fell off the truck on a busy freeway, and then had other parts grafted onto it.
(Obviously, I'm feeling impish, but that's not far off from my perception of 2e. I tried to like it, but it just never worked, for me.)
2e Core + Splat & Supplements = As above, but it fell off the truck on a busy freeway, and then had other parts grafted onto it.
(Obviously, I'm feeling impish, but that's not far off from my perception of 2e. I tried to like it, but it just never worked, for me.)
Philotomy Jurament
First Post
When I first heard of it, I liked the concept of the Monstrous Compendium, but it turns out that the execution was flawed. Since a single sheet often had monsters printed front and back, it wasn't possible to insert sheets and keep things in order, so what was the point?
I know it's not the "common wisdom," but I also don't like all the fluff in the 2e monster books, with the in-depth ecology and all that. (I wonder if some of that approach was born of the need to fill up the space on a page of the Monstrous Compendium? -- hadn't thought of that, before...) I think it gives the monsters too much of a "National Geographic Wildlife Encyclopedia" feel. I prefer monsters to be mysterious and unknown. Give me the stats for a goblin and a couple lines of description. I'll create multiple "skins" for that monster and multiple spins/twists on those stats. Players won't even *know* that they're facing a "goblin," in may cases. I like the "what the hell is that thing" approach. All the fluff in the 2e monster books doesn't *have* to be used, but I think it's usually considered to be the canonical or "correct" description of the monster. I don't like that tendency. I also don't like the implication that monsters *need* a well-developed ecology; I abjure the very concept.
Of course, the info in the 2e monster books could be seen as just an example, and nothing prevents me from re-skinning and re-imagining the descriptions and fluff; I can just ignore all that. And that's my point, really -- I don't consider it a good thing, so I'd ignore it.
Xyxox
Hero
It was a great idea to begin with and fell off the promise by the third supplement (Dragonlance).
That said, since it's all in PDF format now, it 100% fulfills its promise if you're willing to do some manipulation. I've got just about every 2E monster published in all the various Monstrous Compendia, annuals, and the various boxed sets, adventures and other accessories in nice neat data entries in my
CR2+E.
I love copy and paste.
It worked well with the various spell compendia and the Encyclopedia Magica (except Volume 2 which was never released in PDF and man was it a pain to manually enter it into CR2+E). There were some issues with the OCR on a lot of the PDFs, but nothing that couldn't be overcome.
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