How is this for a 7th or 8th "man" for a party?

[ravenheart]

Repost from the CharOp boards:

I'm about to restart my "annual" campaign with 6 players, and a 7th might be on the joining later this fall. I won't list the other characters here since there's probably going to be some heavy duty retraining and reimagining within the party composition (been a year since we last played, and boy have there been changes!).

I am, however, quite confident it will still be very melee heavy (prob. thief, hexblade, blackguard and warden), and that there'll be only 1 controller (currently OoD Wizard) and 1-2 strikery leaders (Bravura Warlord and another possibly going with Sentinel). Now, seeing as this group is growing out of control, I am going to run it with a maximum of 4 or 5 players at a time, the others doing other things as the story progresses horizontally.

What I'm thinking of is introducing a possibly DM-controlled PC at some point, probably at the same time as the 7th player joins the party/story. I say possibly because we might take turns Dm:ing at some point (allowing me to be a player instead) or another player might join and take over. I started tinkering with the CB, and this is what I came up with...


Chana, level 8
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Deva, Invoker/Runepriest
Covenant Manifestation Option: Manifestation of Preservation
Hybrid Invoker Option: Hybrid Invoker Fortitude
Runic Artistry Option: Defiant Word
Hybrid Talent Option: Runepriest Armor Proficiency
Inherent Bonuses
Resurrectionist (+2 to Diplomacy)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 18, CON 14, DEX 8, INT 15, WIS 18, CHA 10

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 14, DEX 8, INT 13, WIS 14, CHA 10


AC: 24 Fort: 21 Ref: 18 Will: 21
HP: 53 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 13

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +14, Diplomacy +13, Insight +14, Religion +14

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Arcana +6, Bluff +5, Dungeoneering +8, Endurance +6, Heal +8, History +8, Intimidate +4, Nature +8, Perception +8, Stealth +3, Streetwise +4, Thievery +3

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Deva Racial Power: Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes
Runepriest Feature: Rune of Mending
Paladin Feature: Virtue's Touch
Runepriest Attack 1: Word of Exchange
Invoker Attack 1: Divine Bolts
Invoker Attack 1: Astral Terror
Invoker Attack 1: Brilliant Beacon
Runepriest Utility 2: Shield of Sacrifice
Runepriest Attack 3: Beacon of Vengeance
Runepriest Attack 5: Cage of Light
Invoker Utility 6: Astral Step
Invoker Attack 7: Written in Fire

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Staff Expertise
Level 4: Soldier of Virtue
Level 6: Power of Skill
Level 8: Battle Intuition

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit
Hellfire Staff +2 x1
Sustaining Cloak +2 x1
Bloodiron Drakescale Armor +2 x1
Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier) x1
Bracers of the Perfect Shot (heroic tier) x1
Gem of Colloquy (heroic tier) x1
Legacy Undying (heroic tier)
====== End ======

I already have a great story arc planned out for this char, and I think I hit the right notes concerning mixing leader with controller. A bit concerned about the 'to-hit' and the defenses being to low. Keep in mind some items and choices are flavour elements rather than theorycrafted decisions.

Anyway, isn't she pretty? Thoughts?

/Haze

PS. I know it isn't an 'optimized' character, I just want opinions on it's viability. If this is the wrong forum for it I'll post it elsewhere.

Thought I'd post it here as well, like to hear your opinions!

 

[Herschel]

My opinion: Don't do it. Anything more than six players at the table I find bogs down a lot. If the DM duties are going to be swapped by you and another person, design a character together you both like and switch out from there.

 

[phoffman]

My opinion is not to introduce a DM PC if your going to be switching DMs now and then. When the time comes to switch just switch introduce your character to the group, and put the other PC into "the bottle" [Genie Reference, or Iron Flask]

Everyone suspends disbelief and you move on with the game after switching PCs.

When the time comes for you to DM again, you put your PC "into the bottle" and the other player resumes with his character. My suggestion is to level up players out of play to equal the party in terms of power as well.

*`*`*`*`*`*`*`*`*

For me as a DM 6 players is a lot. And currently I am running a campaign with 5 players and in their party they have 4 henchmen. This can lead to really long combats. (Thankfully the henchmen aren't usually brought into combat situations) This is another reason to try and not have DM controlled PCs, as a DMs we have many items on our plates and NPCs plus a PC to control can cause things to slow down by a few minutes a round.

From my experience as PC parties get larger the best way to challenge them is not by higher level critters, but by more critters. Also I have found that the recommended method to building encounters in the book tends to lead to weak encounters. You will have to feel this out depending on your players.

As a DM that is going to be switching to a PC later in the campaign you have an advantage that others might not have. You will know the Players strengths and weaknesses by the time you get to play your PC. And this should put you in a better position to integrate with the party. I would hold off on making my PC until its time to give up the DM reigns.

 

[ravenheart]

Thanks for the replies!

My opinion: Don't do it. Anything more than six players at the table I find bogs down a lot. If the DM duties are going to be swapped by you and another person, design a character together you both like and switch out from there.

Well, since I'm going to split the party into two groups (at most 4 or 5 characters during a single session, including this char.) this shouldn't be an issue. I also forgot to mention that I'll probably run it as a companion character unless we swap DMs with one of the players, or a new player wants to play this character.

My opinion is not to introduce a DM PC if your going to be switching DMs now and then. When the time comes to switch just switch introduce your character to the group, and put the other PC into "the bottle" [Genie Reference, or Iron Flask]

Everyone suspends disbelief and you move on with the game after switching PCs.

When the time comes for you to DM again, you put your PC "into the bottle" and the other player resumes with his character. My suggestion is to level up players out of play to equal the party in terms of power as well.

The DM-swap was more or less hypothetical, so I'm not sure if it will happen. Characters dropping in and out of parties will be handled storywise, as this is less of a linear dungeon crawl and more of an episodic game (with simulatenous events, branching stories, "sidequests" etc.). And I don't use XP except for encounter design - all characters are equal level.

*`*`*`*`*`*`*`*`*

For me as a DM 6 players is a lot. And currently I am running a campaign with 5 players and in their party they have 4 henchmen. This can lead to really long combats. (Thankfully the henchmen aren't usually brought into combat situations) This is another reason to try and not have DM controlled PCs, as a DMs we have many items on our plates and NPCs plus a PC to control can cause things to slow down by a few minutes a round.

Tell me about it. The finale encounter of last summers campaign was a massive, two part fight with a huge encounter budget, mid-battle milestone and a party of 6 + 1 CC and 1 mount. It took nearly 6 hours. ;b But it was epic.

From my experience as PC parties get larger the best way to challenge them is not by higher level critters, but by more critters. Also I have found that the recommended method to building encounters in the book tends to lead to weak encounters. You will have to feel this out depending on your players.

I learned this the hard way. And I tend to try out new things to keep the encounters challenging, innovative and fun.

As a DM that is going to be switching to a PC later in the campaign you have an advantage that others might not have. You will know the Players strengths and weaknesses by the time you get to play your PC. And this should put you in a better position to integrate with the party. I would hold off on making my PC until its time to give up the DM reigns.

The thing is, I'm pretty sure I know what my players are thinking, and as I am the resident expert and tend to know everyones PCs better than themselves (with a few exceptions), they will most likely ask me for advice (and take it) in character creation and party composition. So this is a sort of "educated guess" in what could work as a 7/8th char.

But this was more of an experiment, really. I just want to know what you think of the character, and if there are any glaring omissions i should be concerned about. Anyway, thanks again!