How long a view is needed for a teleport's "Viewed Once"

[NewJeffCT]

category?

The players had a brief vision last night where they saw a "flash" of the lost city where they are going. They only know that it was in a jungle location - a huge Brazil sized jungle hundreds of miles wide and a few hundred miles deep.

The guy playing the psion thought this brief vision would qualify him to be able to teleport to the city (6 seconds). I had thought it was too brief a time to even qualify for "studied once" since they don't even know if they're in the right jungle.

Was I correct in this ruling?

 

[Vegepygmy]

Was I correct in this ruling?

In my opinion, no. (It's not "studied once," it's "viewed once.")

But you're the DM, so it's your call. I would just caution you to make sure you remain consistent in your ruling. If it didn't work for the players this time, it had better not work for a villain later.

 

[NewJeffCT]

In my opinion, no. (It's not "studied once," it's "viewed once.")

But you're the DM, so it's your call. I would just caution you to make sure you remain consistent in your ruling. If it didn't work for the players this time, it had better not work for a villain later.

Thanks - I had viewed once in the title, but must have had a mental block & put studied once.

However, I think without a general idea of where to go within the region, I don't think it would be good enough for even viewed once.

Is there a more definitive definition in any other book?

 

[akbearfoot]

That's the thing....With teleport, you don't have to specify exactly how far from your current location you want to go. You don't have to know how far away your desired location is. You just have to envision the location. If you just had the dream last night, I'd say that is a pretty fresh viewing. Definitely not studied carefully, but certainly 'seen once'.

If you didn't want them to teleport there in the first place, why did you give them this vision in the first place, knowing they had access to teleport?

Whatever you decide, be consistent. This could possibly impact the PCs ability to Scry/teleport. And will almost certainly limit the bad guys ability to do the same on the PCs, given most groups propensity to move around constantly.

This sort of stuff is why I've had gaming groups who's first action every time they visit a new city is to find an open place like a courtyard, market or square and basically set up camp there for a full day....Just so the casters can teleport/recall back there if needed. Characters had to keep physical lists of all the places they could teleport to, it was a major hassle.

 

[irdeggman]

Which of the following "best" applies?

Familiarity:

“Very familiar” is a place where you have been very often and where you feel at home.

“Studied carefully” is a place you know well, either because you can currently see it, you’ve been there often, or you have used other means (such as scrying) to study the place for at least one hour.

“Seen casually” is a place that you have seen more than once but with which you are not very familiar.

“Viewed once” is a place that you have seen once, possibly using magic.

I agree with Vegepygmy.

There is a reason why it is a % roll on success and that has to do with how familiar you are with where you are going.

The idea is that you matching up what you saw with where you want to be. So the more detail you know about it the better that match is. Regardless of where the jungle is the character is trying to go to what matches what he saw. IMO the % reflects how much unique detail was garned by the view/study/etc.

And in this case I would say thay your implanted dream would have counted as "using magic".

But as others have also said "be consistent" and apply whatever rules you come up to all cases.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Which of the following "best" applies?



I agree with Vegepygmy.

There is a reason why it is a % roll on success and that has to do with how familiar you are with where you are going.

The idea is that you matching up what you saw with where you want to be. So the more detail you know about it the better that match is. Regardless of where the jungle is the character is trying to go to what matches what he saw. IMO the % reflects how much unique detail was garned by the view/study/etc.

And in this case I would say thay your implanted dream would have counted as "using magic".

But as others have also said "be consistent" and apply whatever rules you come up to all cases.

The difference is that when you are scrying on something, you are observing for 1 min/level, meaning a minimum of 7 minutes. You can get a general idea and see all around the subject for 10 feet in any direction, so can get a feel for surroundings.

The vision was a view of some landscape that changed its look during six seconds.

And, allowing the teleport would have been inconsistent with how I've been playing so far, as the players have been scried upon several times for 9-12 minutes at a time, and I did not think that qualified enough to make it to "Viewed Once" - or, I'd have had bad guys teleporting in all the time.

 

[irdeggman]

The difference is that when you are scrying on something, you are observing for 1 min/level, meaning a minimum of 7 minutes. You can get a general idea and see all around the subject for 10 feet in any direction, so can get a feel for surroundings.

There are other spells/powers that that have less time - and you also do not need to use the full time for scrying - that is the maximum time, or do you normally rule that the scry must go for the entire duration for someone to gather information?


To use the Search skill on a 5x5 area takes 1 full round (about 6 seconds) and that should give a lot of detail about that area.

The vision was a view of some landscape that changed its look during six seconds.

Which is clearly covered by the other category "False destination" - (which I didn't quote)

“False destination” is a place that does not truly exist or if you are teleporting to an otherwise familiar location that no longer exists as such or has been so completely altered as to no longer be familiar to you. When traveling to a false destination, roll 1d20+80 to obtain results on the table, rather than rolling d%, since there is no real destination for you to hope to arrive at or even be off target from.

And, allowing the teleport would have been inconsistent with how I've been playing so far, as the players have been scried upon several times for 9-12 minutes at a time, and I did not think that qualified enough to make it to "Viewed Once" - or, I'd have had bad guys teleporting in all the time.

That is what it is all about - applying it consistently ; )

 

[NewJeffCT]

There are other spells/powers that that have less time - and you also do not need to use the full time for scrying - that is the maximum time, or do you normally rule that the scry must go for the entire duration for someone to gather information?

To use the Search skill on a 5x5 area takes 1 full round (about 6 seconds) and that should give a lot of detail about that area.

Which is clearly covered by the other category "False destination" - (which I didn't quote)

That is what it is all about - applying it consistently ; )

Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, I'm usually the 4th most knowledgeable person in our group on 3E/3.5 rules, and there is a big gap after the top two most knowledgeable guys. So, sometimes I'm not always sure on various rules and if the players are taking advantage of me or not (they don't, but you never know...)

 

[irdeggman]

Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, I'm usually the 4th most knowledgeable person in our group on 3E/3.5 rules, and there is a big gap after the top two most knowledgeable guys. So, sometimes I'm not always sure on various rules and if the players are taking advantage of me or not (they don't, but you never know...)

Are they providing the requisite DM tribute (i.e., snacks and beverages) ; )

If so then all is good with the world.

 

[Kask]

Is there a more definitive definition in any other book?

“Very familiar” is a place where you have been very often and where you feel at home. “Studied carefully” is a place you know well, either because you can currently see it, you’ve been there often, or you have used other means (such as scrying) to study the place for at least one hour. “Seen casually” is a place that you have seen more than once but with which you are not very familiar. “Viewed once” is a place that you have seen once, possibly using magic."

So, is it less than "seen casually"? "Viewed once" isn't studied. Consider you are driving cross country and you stop and get a slurpy from 7-11. You just walk in and back out. Was the magical viewing at least this good as far as the inside of the 7-11?