How lovely, our first nightmare with hiding in combat!

[Oofta]

To me, the big factor in allowing the goblins to "shoot and hide" or not is two fold:

1: Terrain/lighting: A goblin can't shoot, hide behind a barrel, and then shoot again. The characters may not be able to see the goblin hidden behind the barrel, but they know he's there - behind that barrel! The goblin must be able to *re-position* between each shot so the PCs don't know where he is. If there was a pile of barrels, or darkness, that would work

2: Isn't hiding an *action*? You can't take two actions per turn, unless you have a class or racial feature that allows you to hide as a bonus action. So it would work like: Round 1: pop from cover, shoot, pop back under cover. Round 2: hide and sneak to a new position. Round 3: repeat (... I think)

Popping in and out of cover is very valid though, even if stealth isn't involved.

edit: Re-reading your post, it sounds like what you did is pretty darn close to what I posted... either way, it sounded like a fun battle!

Goblins are shifty little creatures and can hide or disengage as a bonus action.

But I also agree with what you and others are saying, as long as there's sufficient opportunities to hide they can hide every round. However, if someone can clearly see them (by walking around to see the other side of the barrel for example) they are no longer hidden.

 

[TheSword]

To help with the teamwork I probably would have told the PCs they can actively search for the goblins (making a perception check) and then direct their team mates to the spot which would then negate them using that cover to hide in.

I think after two or three rounds of the Benny Hill antics I would have had the goblins surrender, flee or charge. Third level PCs running round after individual goblins wears thin after a while.

Other than that I probably would have done similar, it sounds great.

 

[aco175]

I do not know if it is the rogue or halfling power that lets them hide behind the fighter every round and then pop out to gain advantage, (sounds like halfling). Do other DMs give goblins something like this where they could hide behind the hobgoblins. I tend to not allow it at all, but the thief never does it anyways so it has not been an issue.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I do not know if it is the rogue or halfling power that lets them hide behind the fighter every round and then pop out to gain advantage, (sounds like halfling). Do other DMs give goblins something like this where they could hide behind the hobgoblins. I tend to not allow it at all, but the thief never does it anyways so it has not been an issue.

Two different abilities. The Halfling can Hide behind larger creatures, but they must use their Action to do so (so they'd Hide in the first round, then pop out from behind the Fighter in the second round to attack with Advantage.) Whereas the Rogue and Goblin can both Hide as a bonus action, which allows them to Hide first with their bonus, then pop out and use their Action to attack with Advantage. However, they need to be in Heavily Obscuring terrain to do so (which a larger creature isn't-- it is considered Lightly Obscuring terrain.) This hiding and attacking can be done every round for the Rogue and Goblin.

Some people (including myself) do add in extra rules to make that process for the Rogue and Goblin a little more difficult. Theoretically a R/G could just duck behind a barrel (breaking Line of Sight) and then Hide with a bonus action before attacking with their action, but then a question gets asked "Well, if you know the R/G is there (even if you can't see them) should they really be consider hidden even with a high Stealth check? Should the 'duck and cover' process when you 'know' where the person is really grant Advantage?" Which is why for instance I add in the rule as I said that the person has to move at least 10 feet away from where they entered the covering terrain before they can gain Advantage on their next attack. You have to really make your attack location much different from where you began hiding in order to gain such an advantage as Advantage.

Others don't care about that, and still others don't allow it during combat at all. It all comes down to personal taste.

 

[Oofta]

I do not know if it is the rogue or halfling power that lets them hide behind the fighter every round and then pop out to gain advantage, (sounds like halfling). Do other DMs give goblins something like this where they could hide behind the hobgoblins. I tend to not allow it at all, but the thief never does it anyways so it has not been an issue.

Some halflings (lightfoot?) have the ability to hide behind larger creatures. Whether or not they get advantage when they pop out from behind the fighter is up to the DM. I rule that if they "pop out" so that they can clearly see their target, the target can now see them clearly as well. While there are times when you can get advantage in combat from hiding, in general line of sight goes both ways.

Expect variation depending on your DM.

 

[iserith]

If the goblins were hiding in the same spot, I would have given advantage to the PCs' passive Perception checks. And, of course, once any PCs could clearly see them, the goblins could not hide from those PCs. Otherwise, they could hide and would get advantage on their attack roll against any PC whose passive Perception fell short.

 

[Sunseeker]

Combat sounds legit to me. I probably wouldn't have gone easy with the Captain, but it sounds like you might have murdered the party if you hadn't, I probably would have been okay murdering one party member to get the point across that the Captain is a badass tho.

 

[jgsugden]

My interpretation of the hiding rules are subjective and tweak around a bit from situation to situation. Here is the basic underlying goals that I keep in mind when I arbitrate the rules:

1.) The PCs are heroes and should be effective at doing things that they've sunk resources into doing. If they are training in stealth and wear stealth compatible armor, they should be able to be sneaky. I roll a stealth check, in secret, for the PCs that are hiding and do not tell them what they rolled. Then, I apply that roll until they tell me they want to hide again. This allows them to act without knowing exactly what chance of success they have.
2.) Generally, I keep in mind three DCs for a hiding PC for each potential observer: Their unadjusted passive perception, and the passive perception modifier for advantage and disadvantage (+/- 5).
3.) If a potential observer is distracted (in combat, engaged in discussion, etc...) I give them disadvantage. If they are not engaged in activity, they get their passive perception. If they're on guard (using their action to look around), they get advantage and get to roll to spot them (Their passive perception +5 is the floor, but they get 2 rolls to try to get higher than 15 on the die). All of this is a judgment call. I also factor in whether the PC should have had advantage or not against the observer when they rolled their stealth roll... sometimes resulting in the PC having different stealth scores for two different observers (example: PC should have advantage versus observer 1, but not versus observer 2 - I roll a d20 and apply it to both, then a second d20 and if it is better apply it instead for observer one). This can get complicated to track, but I have a tool that tracks it for me on my initiative tracker.
4.) A target must have cover/concealment, generally, to hide. Once hidden, they can move from cover/concealment to cover/concealment during their movement, but I effectively give them disadvantage on their already rolled stealth score - If the observer was distracted, they do not suffer disadvantage at this moment (lose the -5). If they were not engaged, they get advantage (+5 to passive perception and 2 rolls to beat 15 on the die). If they were on alert there is no change (+5 to passive and 2 rolls to beat 15).
5.) Loud noises, attacking, spellcasting, etc... end hiding, generally, but I make judgment calls. It may end hiding versus some enemies, but not others, especially if there is total concealment versus some enemies.
6.) PCs get the benefit of the doubt. Enemies trying to do the same thing do not. (The PCs are heroes - life is not fair).

Generally, this works really well.

 

[Ancalagon]

I didn't see an error in the use of the hiding rules when each goblin uses it's bonus action to hide and compare that value to the passive perception of the characters. As others said, regarding line of sight, I interpret that when a model moves around an object and line of sight exists then the hidden character is no longer hidden, unless there is something obscuring it such as heavy shadows, a curtain, etc. I don't require a character to move any distance to hide once it's line of sight is broken. I've convinced myself that a creature can hide behind a barrel or turned over 5-ft table because the opponent is not sure where the hidden creature will pop out from to attack. This gives my rogue players a way to use their skills as they perceive in their minds eye, it also helps goblins feel more sneaky.

To me, a barrel isn't enough. But, say, a wagon? That would do it.

And I think that as a GM, I would demand less hiding space for a goblin than a larger creature.

 

[Oofta]

To me, a barrel isn't enough. But, say, a wagon? That would do it.

And I think that as a GM, I would demand less hiding space for a goblin than a larger creature.

But then how will my players know I'm upset with them if I can't have a Tarrasque hiding behind a bush attack them?