How many hits can a mook take?

[pemerton]

Marvel Heroic RP uses a variant of @aramis erak's mode 3.

 

[aramis erak]

Marvel Heroic RP uses a variant of @aramis erak's mode 3.

Meanwhile, Firefly? Everyone's a mook! Spend a Plot Point or you're taken out by any hit.

 

[GMMichael]

But in a game that doesn't really use HP or similar mechanics, this may not be necessary. In Blades in the Dark, this is all part of the core mechanic. Typical foes are defeated with one successful roll on the part of a player. If the player instead gets only a partial success, then perhaps an enemy may linger and only be wounded or similar. It kind of depends on the fiction and what the GM thinks would be best. But if a PC says "I'm going to stab this ornery guard in his neck for him" and then makes a Skirmish roll and gets a full success......then very likely that guard just got stabbed in the neck, and is either dead, or likely rapidly bleeding out. The position and effect set by the GM can influence this, but assuming a normal level of risk, then it plays out as above.

If you want to make it somewhat variable - could be 1 hit, could be more - maybe look at something like first edition Fung Shui where mooks went down if you hit them sufficiently well (I think 5 over the target number) or Mutants and Masterminds where mooks go down if they fail a damage save at any level.

I'd definitely like to use these ideas - how would the narrative play out, and incorporate a degree-of-success (DoS) or two.

Actual mooks, the "insignificant" ones, should be defeated with a successful attack - or even on a failed attack with something going wrong for the PC. It seems a little more cinematic if that mook defends a couple of times first, though. But it's probably not the worst thing if a mook fails to defend, because that's more glory for the attacking PC. The narrative can add the interest in place of the combat rules, describing the desperate attempts represented by each defense, and the final (or not so final) moments of the mook after the PC's hit.

A bigger mook though - tiger, ogre, BIG skeleton - might be expected to last a little longer, and this is where I might try a DoS. If the successful attack is just passing - the mook wears down. If the attack is critical - skip to death sequence.

Or a minimum number of contests for big mooks could work (the Owl's three-count is fair because it echoes strikes in baseball or extra lives in early video games). Then a big, seemingly tough, mook could still be defeated after one good attack as long as there were two interesting previous attempts before that, successful or otherwise.

 

[Tonguez]

When I want a skirmish to go quickly, I skip the combat rules and just use a simple conflict - a few rolls from each player to decide what happens. The PCs usually win this because the opponents are mooks and the PCs have better things to do.

Skipping combat rules means skipping damage rules, for the most part. So how many successful attacks/actions does a PC need to make to drop/defeat a mook? "Just one" could mean the skirmish feels like swatting flies, and "until the opponent runs out of hit points" means the combat rules are back in effect.

I use HD as hits ie 3 HD means 3 hits until they are out, 1 HD means just one hit. They’re mooks its suppose to be like swatting flies. Its the NPCs that are part of the story and thus get HP

 

[hawkeyefan]

I'd definitely like to use these ideas - how would the narrative play out, and incorporate a degree-of-success (DoS) or two.

Actual mooks, the "insignificant" ones, should be defeated with a successful attack - or even on a failed attack with something going wrong for the PC. It seems a little more cinematic if that mook defends a couple of times first, though. But it's probably not the worst thing if a mook fails to defend, because that's more glory for the attacking PC. The narrative can add the interest in place of the combat rules, describing the desperate attempts represented by each defense, and the final (or not so final) moments of the mook after the PC's hit.

A bigger mook though - tiger, ogre, BIG skeleton - might be expected to last a little longer, and this is where I might try a DoS. If the successful attack is just passing - the mook wears down. If the attack is critical - skip to death sequence.

Or a minimum number of contests for big mooks could work (the Owl's three-count is fair because it echoes strikes in baseball or extra lives in early video games). Then a big, seemingly tough, mook could still be defeated after one good attack as long as there were two interesting previous attempts before that, successful or otherwise.

For Blades in the Dark, any action that a PC will take is assigned a Position and Effect by the GM. The Position is the level of risk and how in control the PC may be in a situation. It ranges from Controlled (low risk) to Risky (normal level of risk) to Desperate (high risk). This is coupled with the Effect, which is the potential strength of the outcome based on the fictional circumstances. This also has a range of three levels, Great (enhanced effect) to Standard effect (goal achieved) to Limited (reduced effect).

So the GM can take all kinds of factors into account when he sets the Position and Effect prior to the player committing to and then making the roll. So, depending on how strong or weak you want the mooks to be, this can be reflected in the Position and Effect, along with other factors. So a PC who has crept up quietly on a NPC is likely in a position where he has Controlled Position and possibly Great Effect. He rolls, and his chances are very good to simply eliminate the target, but ultimately the result of the dice will decide.

That same NPC facing off on even ground with a PC, where he's not caught unaware, would likely be a Risky/Standard action. There's more risk, but he can still achieve the goal of eliminating the target if the dice go his way.

If the NPC was a bit more than standard, like a mini-boss or lieutenant type of NPC.....or if there were more than one standard goons.....then I could see the situation being one where the Position is Risky (if they're squaring off face to face) but the effect is Limited, so that with a successful roll, the PC works toward his goal, but does not manage full success. In this case, he wounds the Lieutenant, or maybe disarms him, making the rest of the fight easier. Or with multiple mooks, perhaps one is taken down, but the other is still there.

You could also be more liberal with things, especially as the PCs grow in power/ability. Maybe you have some particularly low level goons that surround a potent PC. If you want the difference in ability to be a major factor, you can work it in to the Position/Effect. The player says "What chance do I have to just wade through all these jokers so I can move on to their boss?" you can say "Well, they're not exactly highly trained assassins, they're just raw recruits, and they've heard of you, so they're a bit nervous. I think Skirmishing with them would be a Risky/Limited action." The player can then decide to proceed, and also has some resources at his disposal to either buy more dice, or to increase the Effect by one step, in this case from Limited to Standard. Which means that if he rolled a full success, he takes the small gang out.

There are a lot of ways you can approach it. All of this is also subjected to the dice. Players roll pools of d6s, taking the highest roll, and the results are: Failure (1-3), Partial Success/Success With Complication (4-5), or Full Success (6). You can also get a Critical Success if you get more than one 6. So the dice can further tweak how it all plays out.

The combination of Position and Effect, and then Partial Success on the roll makes for a myriad of possibilities, but it's really all based on the fiction, and largely avoids any kind of math for NPCs. They don't even have stats.

Edited to Add: You can make certain NPCs or opponents tougher and require more than one success to deal with. There are ways to do this beyond the minimal ways I describe above. I just wanted to keep my post from getting out of hand.

 

[Shiroiken]

It depend on your system, but if you want to really simplify the combat have each player choose an action for each "round," then have them make any appropriate rolls. Instead of having designated HP for each mook, you simply have a collective number of hits (like a swarm in D&D), allowing large numbers of mooks for a serious fight, or only a few for an easy one. Each success by a player's action (non-roll actions, like spells will have to be adjudicated by system) kills a mooks. At the end of the round, deal some damage based on the number of mooks from the start of the round. Continue until all mooks are slain.

 

[Eltab]

It kinda depends on how high a level the PCs are. Anything that is level-appropriate should be a fight worth having, but "starter enemies" for first-level PCs should turn into 4e Minions fairly quickly.
Maybe monster CR <= Avg PC level?

The PCs know they are powerful and important when - you remember that Bugbear Berserker Boss that almost TPK'ed y'all back in your first adventure? this is his twin brother - goes down on the first blow from the Fighter with a greatsword.

 

[Wasteland Knight]

Figure out how many hits the monster could take from an “average” warrior. You as the GM must define “average warrior” relative to your campaign. This is how many “hits” the nook can take.

Then, figure out how a “hit”from each party member stacks up. The second-line-melee cleric with a mace might be a hit or two. The raging barbarian with a great axe could dish out many “hits”. Anything borderline, condense down the “hits” a creature can take, but expand the “hits” an attack can deliver.

The idea is to streamline the combat, where hopefully most reasonably capable attackers can take outa tank and file opponent with a successful attack.

 

[GMMichael]

Instead of having designated HP for each mook, you simply have a collective number of hits (like a swarm in D&D), allowing large numbers of mooks for a serious fight, or only a few for an easy one. Each success by a player's action (non-roll actions, like spells will have to be adjudicated by system) kills a mooks. At the end of the round, deal some damage based on the number of mooks from the start of the round. Continue until all mooks are slain.

The combination of Position and Effect, and then Partial Success on the roll makes for a myriad of possibilities, but it's really all based on the fiction, and largely avoids any kind of math for NPCs. They don't even have stats.

Trippy. So the answer here is, "Mooks don't take hits. The scenario does." It would be fun to let the PCs make their rolls first, one roll per PC, with whatever action they wanted to use to help the situation. Then let them collectively decide how the first moments/minutes of the skirmish play out based on their results. I / the GM would intervene as necessary, assuming that the PCs didn't all roll successes, and/or the ones who rolled fails didn't add enough negative influence to the narrative.

Could be fun!

 

[GMMichael]

The hit dice and average hit points ideas make sense, but they seem like too much bookkeeping for me. A mook-encounter should almost be a chance for the GM to do some plot-prep behind the screen while the PCs worry about rolling a few dice and being cool/heroes for a few minutes...