D&D 5E (2014) How many is too many? [Skills n' stuff]

[GX.Sigma]

Skills are a perfect example of a system that sits on top of the core and makes the game more complex by giving people more options. Given the stated goals for the Basic rules, I don't see why it should have skills at all (except the Rogue, obviously).

 

[TwoSix]

Skills are a perfect example of a system that sits on top of the core and makes the game more complex by giving people more options. Given the stated goals for the Basic rules, I don't see why it should have skills at all (except the Rogue, obviously).

I don't even see a need for Rogues to have skills in Basic. Dexterity or Intelligence check + "Duh, I'm a Thief" should cover it.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Just to be clear (since I didn't notice anyone else saying it), Mearls and co. have stated that the idea for Basic is to give each class "training" in all checks tied to one ability. So rogues add their skill die to all Dex checks, fighters to Str checks, wizards to Int, and clerics to Cha. (Works out fairly nicely IMO, especially since there are so many Dex skills, which kind of makes up for rogues not getting a bonus background in Basic.)

For the standard game, I think it's silly to have fighters and barbarians punished with fewer skills than, say, clerics. Let everyone get 1-4 bonus skills from class: 4 for rogues, 2 for classes like ranger and monk (basically classes that got 6+Int in 3e), 1 for everyone else.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Again, fair enough. and exactly what I made this thread for...so where is that line? What would be "too much stuff" for you...or is there even such a thing as "too much"?

That's a tough question to answer, especially since everyone has different preferences in that regard. For me personally, I can point to the example of the Ranger in Pathfinder as a class that's IMO bloated with just way too much stuff. They have bonus feats, favoed enemies, favored terrains, an animal companion, spells, and several other features. While I like playing rangers in that game, it just feels like ALOT to keep track of.

AH! "Not much", no...but it is complexity. If one or two is ok, then why not 3 or 4? Does it actually get complex if you have 5 skills listed on your character sheet? 8...12? 1 per level? Again, where is the line?

I would say the line would be "the number of skills that Rogues get." Other classes, unless they are also a skill-centric class like rogues, should get fewer skills than Rogues do. I think full casters, like wizards and clerics, should get one bonus skill. Fighting classes, like barbarians, fighters and monks, should get 1 or 2. Moderately skill focused classes, like the Ranger, should get 2-3. That seems like a good balance to me.

And, then, to take the topic a step further, what is a skill? Is a skill simply something that's "non-combat"? Or should there be skills that are usable in combat? Does that somehow "take away from" or "make sub-optimal" non-combat skills? Why? What's a feat...vs. a maneuver...vs. a trick...vs....?

There are certainly skills that can be used in combat. Escape artist when youre grappled, climb to get up to a sniping spot, tumble to whirl and flip past your enemies, etc.

As for what makes something a skill vs. a feat or trick, skills tend to be things that you could normally do with an ability check, they're just something your character is particularly good at, an "ability specialty" if you will. Maneuvers and tricks are things that let you do something you normally couldn't do with an attack roll or ability check, respectively. Feats are passive abilities that either improve some aspect of your character or allow you to purchase additional things, like extra spells or maneuvers.

 

[Li Shenron]

What/How many skills do you think each class should receive/be permitted or, flat out "I personally prefer/would like to see..." for "Basic/Standard/Advanced" game play?

By keeping in mind the principle that a Basic PC should be nearly as powerful as a Standard or Advanced PC, but at the same time there are no skills in Basic D&D, maybe one alternative approach is:

- Basic: every PC gets to use skill dice on all checks using one ability of choice (Rogue gets two)
- Standard/Advanced: every PC gets a number of skills ~1/6 of the skill list (Rogue gets ~1/3)