How many modifier types SHOULD there be?

[Mark Chance]

Somebody want to take a crack at those?

Just need one bonus. Let's call it "bonus" or something clever like that. Cap it at, say, +10 and be done with it.

 

[diaglo]

none.

pure random dice roll, baby

 

[technophile]

The three simplest routes I can see are either

a) nothing stacks, everything overlaps.

b) everything stacks

c) severely limited set of options (e.g. magic, natural(as a result of size change etc), equipment(e.g. armour)

I think (b) would be the simplest option, but it would get completely crazy very quickly - so perhaps it would work if there was an absolute cap on the total (which could be derived from lots of small bonuses or one big bonus - but that would probably mean re-balancing the cost of buff items for starters, since all buffs would be euqally valuable).

Tricky to get a good, workable solution though.

So if you choose option c does that mean that gauntlets of ogre strength fall into the magic category, or the equipment category?

 

[Abraxas]

There are several other bonuses that apply to abilities:
Size bonus (from Enlarge person and others)
Inherent bonus (from Wish spells, tomes, etc.)

I would slap size bonuses in with enhancement bonuses and only let the largest bonus appply.

I forgot about Inherent bonuses - This could be combined with Luck bonuses quite nicely - IMO.

 

[Tessarael]

Here is what I woudl do to simplify bonus types:

Alchemical gets folded into Circumstance. [Circumstance]
Combine Armor and Natural Armor. [Armor]
Combine Deflection and Shield. [Deflection]
Competence and Insight get folded into Enhancement. [Enhancement]
Dodge stays. [Dodge]
Inherent stays. [Inherent]
Combine Luck, Morale, Profane and Sacred, and fold them into Circumstance. [Circumstance]
Racial becomes untyped. [untyped]
Resistance gets folded into Enhancement. [Enhancement]
Size stays. [Size]

This leaves us with the following bonus types: Armor, Circumstance, Deflection, Dodge Enhancement, Inherent, Size, and untyped.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

There are a couple reasons why I think a review of this mechanic is useful. The large number of non-stacking bonuses can cause problems for players and (especially) DMs. The increase in dynamic changes to character abilities makes things complicated to track, especially in the middle of combat. The min-maxing tendencies of players can get out of hand, as they attempt to accumulate the largest number of different bonuses. It can contribute to the perceived over-reliance on equipment, for the same reason.

Bonuses of a magical nature, whether arcane, divine, whatever: Magical
Bonuses as a result of environment or situation (slippery rocks, smart player tactic, morale): Circumstance
Bonuses due to mundane equipment (armor, shields, masterwork weapons or tools): Equipment
Bonuses due to class ability (barbarian rage, ranger favored enemy): Class

Inherent and racial really aren't bonuses, as they permanently modify the base score. Polymorphing into a fire giant just provides a magical bonus to the relevant stats. Similarly, the 'Dex bonus' to armor and such isn't really a bonus, it's a rule that says you always apply the Dex modifier to the armor class. (Re-word flat-footed to say that it makes the Dex modifier 0 or unchanged, whichever is lower.)

That's it -- Magical, Circumstance, Equipment, Class. No unnamed or untyped bonuses. No stacking, just take the highest bonus minus the highest penalty.

Re-work spells as necessary to provide scaling magical bonuses, although I'd also consider seperate spells at increasing levels instead (eg, Cub's Strength, +2 Magical bonus to STR at 2nd, Bear's Strength +4 Magical bonus to Strength at 4th, Dire Bear's Strength +6 Magical bonus to Strength at 7th)

A 14 Dex fighter wearing +2 plate and a large shield has an AC of 10+8+2+2+1=23.

Of course, the trickle-down effect would be enormous, but I think it could be done.

 

[Stalker0]

I like the idea of everything stacks, maximum X bonus. It makes things nice and simple, and represents a certain inherent limit to a person's abilities. You want to get better, you have to do it innately.

 

[jodyjohnson]

I like the idea of everything stacks, maximum X bonus. It makes things nice and simple, and represents a certain inherent limit to a person's abilities. You want to get better, you have to do it innately.

With the way the current bonus pricing works (bonus squared) this would encounage as many cheap bonus items as possible and less emphasis on higher more expensive bonuses - which is exactly how the current system feels at the low levels (+1 armor, +1 shield, +1 nat armor, +1 deflection, +2 dex, etc.)

 

[Psion]

The three simplest routes I can see are either

a) nothing stacks, everything overlaps.

b) everything stacks

c) severely limited set of options (e.g. magic, natural(as a result of size change etc), equipment(e.g. armour)

d) The best 2 or 3 stack, no more count.

 

[Abraxas]

That's it -- Magical, Circumstance, Equipment, Class. No unnamed or untyped bonuses. No stacking, just take the highest bonus minus the highest penalty.

A 14 Dex fighter wearing +2 plate and a large shield has an AC of 10+8+2+2+1=23.

If stacking isn't allowed shouldn't the AC be 21?