How many spells/scroll?

[Bouncer]

Hi!

2 Questions:

1) How many spells can you write down per scroll per day? One with max base price of 1000 GP or many with total base price of max 1000 GP?

2) If one character can cast a divine spell and the other one has the scribe scroll feat, kan they work together and write down that spell on a scroll?

Thanks for your advice.

 

[LokiDR]

1) A scroll that contains multiple spells can either be treated as multiple scrolls "glued" together or as 1 magic item. If you like the glue idea, 1 spell/scroll/day. Otherwise, any number so long as the base price of the scroll doesn't exceed 1000. I think the rules lean toward the glue approach since prices are listed spell by spell.

2) If you have the feat, you can have another person cast the spell. Any person can use that scroll so long as that spell is on their spell list.

 

[Methos]

Any person can use that scroll so long as that spell is on their spell list.

I'm confused about this comment. Does this mean that an arcane caster could cast a spell from a scroll when the spell was scribed by a divine caster as long as the spell was on both lists? e.g. bull's strength is on both the cleric and wizard/sorcerer lists, so a wizard could use the spell even if a cleric scribed it?

Also, does this mean that wizard could scribe a spell into a spellbook that was scribed by a divine caster on a scroll. e.g. bull's strength from above?

Thanks.

Cheers

 

[Magic Slim]

1) There are 2 schools of thoughts (I'm amazed that they didn't clear this up in 3.5). You can either consider that you can only write 1 spell on a scroll, and thus, only 1 scroll/day (if said scroll is worth less than 1000gp). Or, you can consider that you can write multiple spells on the same scroll, as long as the price doesn't exceed 1000gp, you can scribe that in 1 day. Note that you have to have the spells memorized (or have enough slots to cast them if you spontaneously cast) in order to cast them on a scroll. No scribing 40 cure light wound spells on the same scroll (if you go with the second option)

2) Quote SRD 3.5: "The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed". I know you can have multiple wizards working together when creating magic items, i wouldn't allow it for scrolls, though.

"3") As for using scrolls, the conditions are:
a) the spell must be of the correct type (arcane vs divine)
b) the spell must be on the caster's spell list
c) the caster must be of sufficient level (or make a level check)

So, if a wizard finds a divine Bull's strength scroll, he CAN'T use it (see "a").

Slim

 

[LokiDR]

1) There are 2 schools of thoughts (I'm amazed that they didn't clear this up in 3.5). You can either consider that you can only write 1 spell on a scroll, and thus, only 1 scroll/day (if said scroll is worth less than 1000gp). Or, you can consider that you can write multiple spells on the same scroll, as long as the price doesn't exceed 1000gp, you can scribe that in 1 day. Note that you have to have the spells memorized (or have enough slots to cast them if you spontaneously cast) in order to cast them on a scroll. No scribing 40 cure light wound spells on the same scroll (if you go with the second option)

DMG 3.5, pg. 238, table 7-21: Number of Spells on A Scroll. You can have multiple spells on a scroll, the question is time to create.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm confused about this comment. Does this mean that an arcane caster could cast a spell from a scroll when the spell was scribed by a divine caster as long as the spell was on both lists? e.g. bull's strength is on both the cleric and wizard/sorcerer lists, so a wizard could use the spell even if a cleric scribed it?

Also, does this mean that wizard could scribe a spell into a spellbook that was scribed by a divine caster on a scroll. e.g. bull's strength from above?

No. With scrolls, the scroll must be of the correct type (arcane or divine) for you to make use of it, and it must be on your spell list.

However, what you propose does work if the wizard scribes the scroll, with the cleric providing the spell. Since the wizard is scribing, the scroll is arcane.

If the cleric provides a spell like Shield of Faith, you end up with an arcane scroll of a spell that is on no arcane lists. The only way anyone can make use of it is with the Use Magic Device skill.

If the cleric provides a spell like Cure Light Wounds, you end up with an arcane scroll of CLW. Neither the wizard who scribed the scroll, nor the cleric who provided the spell, can use the scroll... but a Bard (an arcane caster with CLW on his spell list) can.

If the cleric provides a spell like Bull's Strength, you end up with an arcane scroll of a spell on the Wizard spell list - which the wizard can then transcribe from the scroll he just scribed, into his spellbook.

-Hyp.

 

[LokiDR]

However, what you propose does work if the wizard scribes the scroll, with the cleric providing the spell. Since the wizard is scribing, the scroll is arcane.

Where do you find a reference on a different caster providing a spell for a scroll? My best efforts just turn up "The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed."

 

[Hypersmurf]

Where do you find a reference on a different caster providing a spell for a scroll? My best efforts just turn up "The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed."

• Prerequisites: Certain requirements must be met in order for a character to create a magic item. These include feats, spells, and miscellaneous requirements such as level, alignment, and race or kind. The prerequisites for creation of an item are given immediately following the item’s caster level.
A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.
It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.
If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator’s level must be known. The character designated as the creator pays the XP required to make the item.
Typically, a list of prerequisites includes one feat and one or more spells (or some other requirement in addition to the feat).
When two spells at the end of a list are separated by “or,” one of those spells is required in addition to every other spell mentioned prior to the last two.

-Hyp.

 

[Magic Slim]

DMG 3.5, pg. 238, table 7-21: Number of Spells on A Scroll. You can have multiple spells on a scroll, the question is time to create.

Sorry, don't own 3.5... is the table you speak of the "treasure" table? I know you can find a scroll with multiple spells on it. This, for me, doesn't necessarily confirm that such items may be created. What I mean is why didn't they simply state, in the Magic Item Creation section, Scribing Scroll sub-section, that it is possible to put multiple spells on a single scroll. The way it is written in the SRD, it doesn't seem possible to write multiple spells on a scroll, just like it's not possible to whip up a gallon of Cure Light Wound potions...

I was there the last time that question was debated (but probably not the numerous times before that), and I'm not trying to start the debate again. I'm just saying that each option is possible, as they did not make it Scribing-Scrolls-for-Dummy clear.

Slim

 

[Magic Slim]

• Prerequisites: [...]
-Hyp.

I'm sorry, but IMO, the specific rules of Scroll Scribing override the general rules of magic item creation. That's why i think LokiDR's quote means that the caster who scribes the scroll has to be the one that has memorized the spell.

Your Shield of Faith example is, IMO, quite silly. How could the wizard scribe the scroll, infuse it with magical power, when he doesn't comprehend a single character he's penning down?

but hey, EMMV (Everyone's Mileage May Vary).

Happy Labour day, all!

Slim