How much back story for a low-level PC?

[Vyvyan Basterd]

(hint: items that turn you evil and into NPCs don't count as wieldable)

See, here's where people are actually having a problem with what you are saying. Some PCs start evil, others turn evil through play, and yet others, as you suggest, against their will. Not every DM requires that a PC turned evil becomes an NPC. (I actually do disallow evil PCs and anyone turned evil in my campaigns becomes an NPC, but I understand that this is my choice and not a fact of the rulesets.)

 

[Dausuul]

Not so. There are some pretty tight caps on what a PC can control under the rules.

Depends on which edition you're using. Those caps only came in with 3E.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Even a PC's name implies a heckuva lot about a setting. I'm sure Tolkien would agree. Last time I created a PC, I asked the GM what the naming conventions were, and that was for a oneoff.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Depends on which edition you're using. Those caps only came in with 3E.

And even post-2E if the players' goals were to become the BBEGs of the setting, using their undead armies in a bid for domination, I know many DMs who would work out how to adjudicate the steps the PCs were taking towards that goal. The only difference between the PC and NPC version of this is how the DM allows the plans to progress.

 

[Dausuul]

And even post-2E if the players' goals were to become the BBEGs of the setting, using their undead armies in a bid for domination, I know many DMs who would work out how to adjudicate the steps the PCs were taking towards that goal. The only difference between the PC and NPC version of this is how the DM allows the plans to progress.

In fact, there is a way working strictly within the 3E (not 4E) rules to amass an army of undead, but it requires tactics that most would consider stupidly cheesy. It also carries some serious risks. What you do is play an evil cleric and use Rebuke to take control of a "spawning" undead; be sure to pick one which has control over its spawn (e.g., spectre, wraith, vampire). Then you can have it create your army for you.

Of course, the weak point here is that your control over the resulting army depends on that single undead. If it ever dies or breaks free, you lose control of the horde. It is therefore advisable to reduce the risk by also Commanding the undead's immediate progeny, up to your Hit Die cap; then, if you lose one of your "generals," only a portion of your army goes renegade instead of the whole thing.

And, as I said, many DMs are apt to regard this as the height of cheesy rules abuse. Beware of falling rocks.

 

[The Shaman]

Then I think we're just talking past each other, because what you quoted is alot closer to what I've been trying to talk about all along. If so, it seems we mostly agree.

I'm not sure.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I'm not sure.

I see what you're saying here: background is alright as long as it doesn't impinge on the shared imaginative space of the other PCs by forcing them to play out someone else's backstory projected into the future of the game at the table. I.e., backstory is just that: backstory. It shapes personality, but it doesn't drive action.

We at least overlap quite a bit. I agree completely with MalteseChangeling. I don't believe one player's background should drive action going forward in the game. My character nursing a dying baby griffon back to health from the military griffon stables doesn't force future in-game developments on the party. Another player belonging to a monastary the player created during character development does not force others to play out that character's back story any more than choosing one created by the DM. I believe in allowing players to get involved in creating background elements tied to their PC, but if they submitted something to me expecting it to drive in-game action I would probably have an issue with it. I may ask the player to rewrite that aspect of their background, I may make it a minor element that will get overshadowed by in-game action, or if its something I find would be interesting for the entire group that wouldn't make them feel forced into resolving the background element in-game I might steal the idea and run with it.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Ring of Three Wishes is a pretty obvious one.

Not as much as you'd think.

Bag of Bones

is another, which is specifically intended to allow an army of skeletons to be fielded.

There had to be one, didn't there - it's too glaring a weakness.

In any event, why "name three"?

To point out that artifacts are not normally plot devices and that it devolves down to DM fiat - i.e. NPC only.

See, here's where people are actually having a problem with what you are saying. Some PCs start evil, others turn evil through play, and yet others, as you suggest, against their will. Not every DM requires that a PC turned evil becomes an NPC. (I actually do disallow evil PCs and anyone turned evil in my campaigns becomes an NPC, but I understand that this is my choice and not a fact of the rulesets.)

Ah, slight miscommunication there. The evil and into NPCs was meant to be part of the same clause - from memory the old Bodyparts of Vecna explicitely turned your PC into an NPC? As did some of the other mind-affecting magic that warped the wielder to serve the artifact.

Depends on which edition you're using. Those caps only came in with 3E.

OK. I'm much more familiar with the 3e rules (which is part of why my 3e books are on long term loan).

In fact, there is a way working strictly within the 3E (not 4E) rules to amass an army of undead, but it requires tactics that most would consider stupidly cheesy. It also carries some serious risks. What you do is play an evil cleric and use Rebuke to take control of a "spawning" undead; be sure to pick one which has control over its spawn (e.g., spectre, wraith, vampire). Then you can have it create your army for you.

Of course, the weak point here is that your control over the resulting army depends on that single undead. If it ever dies or breaks free, you lose control of the horde. It is therefore advisable to reduce the risk by also Commanding the undead's immediate progeny, up to your Hit Die cap; then, if you lose one of your "generals," only a portion of your army goes renegade instead of the whole thing.

And, as I said, many DMs are apt to regard this as the height of cheesy rules abuse. Beware of falling rocks.

Ack! Ouch. Yes.