Im all for it. Maybe not as core rules, but as a supplement certainly. This is a role playing game, meaning you play the part of a character. Part of being able to take of the role of a character is having a clear idea of what that character is (which is NOTHING to do with numbers/feats/powers...its background), and frankly I find it SO much more interesting to challenge players with something they didnt invent for themselves (which all to often is just a convenient excuse for erratic behavior and head chopping) but was put before them as a challenge to engage, to make them step outside of their own norms and thought patterns and really slip into the skin of their in game avatar.
How much culture should be hardcoded into races?
- Thread starter Derren
- Start date
Mattachine
Adventurer
I would like to see a couple cultural types sketched out for each race. Humans can have lots of different cultures, and we often go off of historical human societies for examples.
Elves: provide examples for more forest-dwelling types and more magical types
Dwarves: underground dwellers and hill/mountain fortress types
Halflings: rural farmer types and wandering caravan or boat types, maybe also those that live among humans
Half-Elves: grow up with elves or humans (or loners)
Half-Orcs: grow up with orcs or humans (or loners)
Gnomes: small communities of sylvan tricksters or towns full of tinkerers
These are just examples. It would give new players some ideas of racial archetypes, and give DMs some ideas for world-building.
Elves: provide examples for more forest-dwelling types and more magical types
Dwarves: underground dwellers and hill/mountain fortress types
Halflings: rural farmer types and wandering caravan or boat types, maybe also those that live among humans
Half-Elves: grow up with elves or humans (or loners)
Half-Orcs: grow up with orcs or humans (or loners)
Gnomes: small communities of sylvan tricksters or towns full of tinkerers
These are just examples. It would give new players some ideas of racial archetypes, and give DMs some ideas for world-building.
grimslade
Krampus ate my d20s
Default Culture
The cultural level in previous editions of PHBs were fine. It did not keep Darksun from changing races completely or Eberron. Great opportunity to have a sidebar explaining how setting can change the culture of races. Themes can assist a culture change but some core assumptions of race will be built into the race mechanics themselves. Intelligent elves vs. Dextrous elves? How much change should be saved for a later rules mod?
The cultural level in previous editions of PHBs were fine. It did not keep Darksun from changing races completely or Eberron. Great opportunity to have a sidebar explaining how setting can change the culture of races. Themes can assist a culture change but some core assumptions of race will be built into the race mechanics themselves. Intelligent elves vs. Dextrous elves? How much change should be saved for a later rules mod?
Ramaster
Adventurer
The proper answer to this question, I think, is the Pathfinder approach with the Advanced Player's Guide and, presumable, Advanced Race Guide.
You get a default number of options which correspond to the "typical" member of the race. THEN, if you want to play a member of a different culture, you can swap them out for other things.
For example, regular dwarves hate goblins, and get +1 to attack against them, but you can swap that out for a +1 to attack against aberrations (rationalizing that you tribe lives deep underground, where combat with these monstrosities is far more common).
Give us a "classic" dwarf and then way to make him different. It even ties in on the "modular design" philosophy that 5e claims to have (and that I agree is quite cool).
You get a default number of options which correspond to the "typical" member of the race. THEN, if you want to play a member of a different culture, you can swap them out for other things.
For example, regular dwarves hate goblins, and get +1 to attack against them, but you can swap that out for a +1 to attack against aberrations (rationalizing that you tribe lives deep underground, where combat with these monstrosities is far more common).
Give us a "classic" dwarf and then way to make him different. It even ties in on the "modular design" philosophy that 5e claims to have (and that I agree is quite cool).
I'm fine with whatever cultural fluff is provided (or not). Any game mechanical impacts of culture should be replaceable. Halflings in the default system may all be thieves, and get +2 lock picking and +2 move silently. But I should have the option of saying my halflings are riverfolk, and they get +2 swimming, and +2 boating, and I might feel those don't quite make up for the default bonuses, and also give them a +2 hunting, and +2 knowledge nature (rivers).
I don't mind the system making default assumptions, but if I want to have techy eladrins and viking dwarves in my world, I shouldn't feel restricted by the system.
I don't mind the system making default assumptions, but if I want to have techy eladrins and viking dwarves in my world, I shouldn't feel restricted by the system.
KidSnide
Adventurer
This is all about choosing good defaults, and the defaults should include the classic cultures associated with the races. There are two primary reasons for this. First, only experienced players are going play these races with alternate cultures, and the new players need to be taught what these basic cultures are like. Second, for the most part, the cultures are what make the races interesting. I don't enjoy dwarves because they are short and tough. I enjoy them for their culture of clannishness, stubbornness and tendency to set up underground civilizations directly in the path of advancing humanoids. If you cut out the culture, there wouldn't be that much left keeping.
Of course, there should also be optional rules for changing the races to reflect alternate cultures. Cannibal halflings and other "familiar race in an unfamiliar context" is a trope of setting design and D&DN should support it. But setting design itself is an advanced type of D&D experience. Most folks have to get comfortable with the basic setting assumptions before they can try something really creative and the default rules need to support that experience first. Attempting to excise all the setting information from D&DN is counter-productive and shouldn't even be a goal. Instead, DMs should be empowered to change it.
-KS
Of course, there should also be optional rules for changing the races to reflect alternate cultures. Cannibal halflings and other "familiar race in an unfamiliar context" is a trope of setting design and D&DN should support it. But setting design itself is an advanced type of D&D experience. Most folks have to get comfortable with the basic setting assumptions before they can try something really creative and the default rules need to support that experience first. Attempting to excise all the setting information from D&DN is counter-productive and shouldn't even be a goal. Instead, DMs should be empowered to change it.
-KS
gweinel
Explorer
defaullt culture but with the tools to make unique cultures
Well, interesting question.
My races are not exactly as the default ones. However, i think is essential to present a basic default culture for the races for many reasons. The new DM's and players need something to look for and inspired. Even if this the classic tolkienish elf, dwarf and halfling. Why not after all? These are great prototypes.
However, i think it is essential to the game also the existance of the suitable tools to make your unique races. What kind of powers and abilities are good for a race? How to make a balance elf that is different from the default one? A default western medieval human imho should have different abilities than the the oriental one. How to adress these differences in game?
Only with themes? Maybe, but i don't think would solve entirely this issue.
Well, interesting question.
My races are not exactly as the default ones. However, i think is essential to present a basic default culture for the races for many reasons. The new DM's and players need something to look for and inspired. Even if this the classic tolkienish elf, dwarf and halfling. Why not after all? These are great prototypes.
However, i think it is essential to the game also the existance of the suitable tools to make your unique races. What kind of powers and abilities are good for a race? How to make a balance elf that is different from the default one? A default western medieval human imho should have different abilities than the the oriental one. How to adress these differences in game?
Only with themes? Maybe, but i don't think would solve entirely this issue.
Tovec
Explorer
Can't XP you anymore I'm afraid.
But ^this^ is certainly what I think should happen. If it is done well I would even go as far as to say I want it to happen. Now what will happen - that is anybody's guess.
I'm guessing that races will resemble what they generally have in the past editions. Default coded as part of the race, new sub-races to give different fluff.
Which wouldn't be so bad if the new races were tangibly different or if they reflected new exotic traits but they almost never do.
KidSnide
Adventurer
I'm inclined to think that themes would help individual PCs create characters who are different from ordinary members of their race (e.g. an elf with an appropriately "urban" theme).
But I don't think themes will handle the heavy lifting for a campaign where the races are substantially different than usual. (For example, the urban elves in Dragon Age or just about anything from Dark Sun.) For those situations, you're going to want to alter the racial packages themselves. That's likely to put the DM in the chair of "amateur rules designer" but I hope D&DN provides tools to make that type of customization a little easier. A small change should totally gimp a race or make it vastly dominant.
And, for that matter, character creation shouldn't be so dependent on a DDI tool that it's a waste of time for DMs to vary from the core rules.
-KS
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