How much focus should be placed on gods and dieties

tx7321

First Post
When all we had were the original 3 core books in the late 70s (PH, DMG and MM) our group didn't put much attention on the clerics' and players particular gods (it was enough to know the alignment). The DM sometimes offered this info to the player, but usually not. They didn't have much info on "official" TSR gods and dieties, and the players controlling clerics thought of their PCs in a generic way anyhow (ie cool spell casters, looked at in a very similar to the way MUs, the only difference was they could wear armor and prayed for spells).

However, once "Demigods and Dieties" became popular, it seemed (in our group anyway) the more generic "spell casting cleric" switched to annoying "evangilist" clierc, out to spread the faith; and this new introduction became somewhat of a distraction (to the game) as some players really "hammed" it up. It seemed every plot weaved by the DM included elements of religion (which really turned me off). No longer was the cleric purely a spell caster (that had to prey now and then to rememorize) suddenly his back story, and duties to his diety became a major (and vocal) part of the game for him. The players who didn't want to get sucked into this level of detail, found themselves having to just to keep up.

Personally, I found this entire trend to be a big negative evolution of AD&D1 (perhaps worse then anything introduced in UA, as it was more fundamental). It seemed like the focus of the game switched for clerics (and paladins even) from "whats out there" and pure adventure to "how does this all related to my diety", perhaps the first big step into self-evaluation. Sure, sometimes this can be neat, but it became overdone.

This trend in clerics and their dieties continued into 2E, and 3E (to the point that it now defines the class).

So the question is, do you prefer the early 1E generic cleric days (where all you really got from your DM was perhaps the diety's name and your alignment) and the focus was purely spell casting. Or do you prefer the diety specifics, with all the bells and whistles? And do you, at some point, find this diety focus (often taken to an extreme by players and DMs) to be destracting to the rest of the game? Also, does general knowledge of the pantheon improve the game for you, or does it make it seem too uniform and less mysterious?
 
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tx7321 said:
When all we had were the original 3 core books (PH, DMG and MM) our group didn't put much attention to gods in the game. The DM didn't have much info on "official" TSR gods and dieties, and the players focused (almost exclusively) on their clerics as spell casters (very similar to the way MUs are played). However, once demigods became popular, the spell casting cleric focus switched (for many players) to one of evangilist and it became somewhat of a distraction as the players really "hammed" it up. No longer was the cleric stuff just assumed to take place in the back ground, it became a major part of the game.

Personally, I found this to be a negative evolution of the game. It seemed like the focus of the game switched for clerics from "whats out there" and pure adventure to "how does this all related to my diety". This trend continued into 2E, and 3E (to the point that it now defines the class).

So the question is, do you prefer the early 1E generic cleric (where all you really got from your DM is perhaps the diety's name if that) and the focus was purely spell casting. Or do you prefer the diety specifics? And do you, at some point, find this diety focus (often taken to an extreme by players and DMs) to be destracting to the rest of the game?
Well, I kinda disagree that the 1e cleric was necessarily generic. That might be how it was in your games, but it's by no means representative of all 1e games. There was a thread about this a few weeks ago, but I can't be bothered to go looking for it, lol. Some folks went for the "Generic the Cleric" approach, but plenty of others incorporated religions, pantheons and deities from the outset (myself included).

So, split-hairs aside... ;)

No, I don't find it a negative aspect of the class at all. For me it has always defined the cleric, right from the first games that we played. The first character that I regularly DMed for was a cleric, and his deity was a central part of our games from the outset.

Simply put, if you are going to remove the importance of deities and just make the cleric another spellcaster, why even bother calling it a cleric at all? Just call it a healer, sage, mystic or buffomancer. Or don't have it at all (and maybe take the approach that Arcana Evolved has taken, where there is no distinction between arcane and divine magic). I'm sure that Generic the Cleric works fine for plenty of players. I'm just not one of them, and don't see the real point to it. To me, part of what makes clerics fun is having the influence of faiths, the clash of differing religions, and a campaign mythology that resonates right down to the level of the characters.
 

Mark wrote: "There was a thread about this a few weeks ago, but I can't be bothered to go looking for it, lol. Some folks went for the "Generic the Cleric" approach, but plenty of others incorporated religions, pantheons and deities from the outset (myself included)."

Mark, did you start playing before or after the Dieties and Demigods book came out?

Also, did your DM make up the pantheon or was it official TSR stuff? :)

The reason I ask is when I first started playing I didn't know of any DMs (or players) who got into this kind of thing. The first trend I saw in it came after the publication of D&D (though some had started to use it in their games taken from Dragon).
 

tx7321 said:
Mark, did you start playing before or after the Dieties and Demigods book came out?
Weill, I started playing after it came out, but I didn't know it existed until a couple of years after I started playing. I started with Moldvay Basic in 1982 and had no real idea that there was such a thing as AD&D.

Also, did your DM make up the pantheon or was it official TSR stuff? :)
I was the DM and I made it all up myself. After reading the Silmarillion and the Elric stories, for example, and being into mythology and the like, it was clear how deities and pantheons functioned in a fantastic or legendary world and I wanted to recreate that in my games from the outset.
 


Thanks Mark, I missed that completely. BTW, I think pantheons and gods work much better when they are the creation of the DM for his world. The problem with the D&D was that the players gobbled it up. There was no mystery left for the DM to weave. Its best when this stuff is trickled out to the players as they advance and get used to your universe IMHO.
 

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