trumbeller
First Post
My PC's want to purchase an inn in town. How much does it cost to buy something like that in 4e, I'm still really new & don't have that great a grasp of economy. Is that like 100,000 gold?
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How much for an Inn?
- Thread starter trumbeller
- Start date
It costs what you need it to cost.
If you want to let them just buy it with gold, then sure, pick a high number like 100,000 and go for it. This sounds like an opportunity for some fun though.
I'd have them go through the process, paying for permits, obtaining a business license, perhaps doing a favor or two for the local magistrate. . .
There are tons of ways to turn this from a simple business transaction into a memorable roleplaying experience.
And then, you aren't gonna just let them buy some boring old inn, are you? If has to be haunted, or on disputed land, or half burned down. . .
Sounds like a blast!
Jay
If you want to let them just buy it with gold, then sure, pick a high number like 100,000 and go for it. This sounds like an opportunity for some fun though.
I'd have them go through the process, paying for permits, obtaining a business license, perhaps doing a favor or two for the local magistrate. . .
There are tons of ways to turn this from a simple business transaction into a memorable roleplaying experience.
And then, you aren't gonna just let them buy some boring old inn, are you? If has to be haunted, or on disputed land, or half burned down. . .
Sounds like a blast!
Jay
aco175
Legend
No hard science involved, but 100,000 gp seems way high. I do like Jay's post about adventures tied with the process. It just seems like that much money is out of the realm for all of the common people who own inns, unless they ARE all retired adventurers.
Off hand I would guess:
shack- 50 gp
hovel- 100
sm house- 300-500
nice house- 500- 2500
manor house/ poor inn 2500- 10,000
decent inn- 10,000- 25,000
Off hand I would guess:
shack- 50 gp
hovel- 100
sm house- 300-500
nice house- 500- 2500
manor house/ poor inn 2500- 10,000
decent inn- 10,000- 25,000
I'm ot sure if this line of thinking will get you anywhere. the problem is that D&D (4E) doesn't have a working economy, nor does it need to.
It doesn't matter how much buying an inn costs for an npc. All YOU want to care about is what it should cost the PCs. I'd use the magic item prices as the basis:
Decide at which character level you want the pcs to be able to afford an inn and pick the magic item price at that level.
Also remember that owning an inn shouldn't be a source of income but a source of adventure hooks!
Storminator
First Post
Since the inn will be spawning level appropriate adventures, I would price it as a magic item of character level. Then fluff it appropriate to the level - a paragon level inn might be in the Elemental Chaos, frex.
PS
trumbeller
First Post
my god, this was NOT what I expected as an answer. I'm still really new, so my adventurers just hit lvl 2. I am just so impressed with turning this into an entire adventure, I am going to start work on it right away.
The adventure is occurring out of Fallcrest, so the inn will be in a major city. It can most definitely just be some hole in the wall, but the idea of working adventure hooks off of it is BRILLIANT! This group really doesn't need a major adventure, and have been doing all sorts of little adventures trying to find a way to spend more time in town. This is a great way to create locally based adventures with heavy skill challenge and RP elements instead of battles & daily attacks. My group is currently wandering around in the Kobold Hall from the back of DMG, but once they finish I'll make an adventure hook so they can start working towards getting an inn! I'll let you know how it goes, thnx again guys!
The adventure is occurring out of Fallcrest, so the inn will be in a major city. It can most definitely just be some hole in the wall, but the idea of working adventure hooks off of it is BRILLIANT! This group really doesn't need a major adventure, and have been doing all sorts of little adventures trying to find a way to spend more time in town. This is a great way to create locally based adventures with heavy skill challenge and RP elements instead of battles & daily attacks. My group is currently wandering around in the Kobold Hall from the back of DMG, but once they finish I'll make an adventure hook so they can start working towards getting an inn! I'll let you know how it goes, thnx again guys!
LostSoul
Adventurer
I would pick a level at which someone would spend all their cash to buy an inn; level 5 sounds about right. Total Monetary Treasure = 2000gp, so 2000gp.
(This same logic would seem to indicate a small keep would cost about 10k, and a big fancy castle 50k. Cool, I like those numbers.)
Other stuff:
Each "business cycle", make a hard check of the level of your inn, castle, business, whatever. The skill your ability you check depends on how you're going about managing your business; if you're running an illegal gambling den, fencing goods, etc. through your inn, Thievery or Streetwise would work.
If you make the check, you gain a random treasure parcel of the level of your business. Roll 1d6+4 and consult the table.
If you fail the check, you lose 1/2 that amount! If you can't pay, either someone else attempts to take your business from you or the business gets shut down.
I would suggest a year as the business cycle, meaning it takes about 6 years to recoup your initial investment.
You can have NPCs run the place for you, but in that case they'll make the roll; the best you can do is lend Aid.
Hmm... I bet you could write something up using the skill challenge mechanics as a guide in order to have an "adventure generator".
(This same logic would seem to indicate a small keep would cost about 10k, and a big fancy castle 50k. Cool, I like those numbers.)
Other stuff:
Each "business cycle", make a hard check of the level of your inn, castle, business, whatever. The skill your ability you check depends on how you're going about managing your business; if you're running an illegal gambling den, fencing goods, etc. through your inn, Thievery or Streetwise would work.
If you make the check, you gain a random treasure parcel of the level of your business. Roll 1d6+4 and consult the table.
If you fail the check, you lose 1/2 that amount! If you can't pay, either someone else attempts to take your business from you or the business gets shut down.
I would suggest a year as the business cycle, meaning it takes about 6 years to recoup your initial investment.
You can have NPCs run the place for you, but in that case they'll make the roll; the best you can do is lend Aid.
Hmm... I bet you could write something up using the skill challenge mechanics as a guide in order to have an "adventure generator".
DracoSuave
First Post
Remember as well, making the inn -too expensive- (10 ad, wtf?) means that you'll be testing the edges of realism a bit too much.
The average yokel should be bringing in a sp or 2 as income. They're going to a source of profit for an inn that requires access to the planes in order to get the base currency necessary to build it?
Yeah. Didn't think so.
It's a campaign base, not easily defensible, and doesn't provide much in character benefit other than role-playing opportunity.
Make the price cheap, and then give them opportunity to adventure to get the price down from there. Then they can have their inn.
Then when they hit paragon, burn it to the ground to be a dick.
The average yokel should be bringing in a sp or 2 as income. They're going to a source of profit for an inn that requires access to the planes in order to get the base currency necessary to build it?
Yeah. Didn't think so.
It's a campaign base, not easily defensible, and doesn't provide much in character benefit other than role-playing opportunity.
Make the price cheap, and then give them opportunity to adventure to get the price down from there. Then they can have their inn.
Then when they hit paragon, burn it to the ground to be a dick.
LostSoul
Adventurer
So here is the skill challenge adventure generator.
For an inn.
Standard loss: 1/2 a random treasure parcel (1d6+4) of the inn's level.
Standard opposition: If the trouble is formed by some group, that group is comprised of enough creatures to create 1 encounter of the inn's level - 1, 2 encounters of the inn's level, and one encounter of the inn's level +2. The leader is a character of the inn's level +4.
Resolution of trouble could just be a single roll or an adventure in itself.
Random Sources of Trouble
Source of Trouble (1d6)
1 - Labour unrest
2 - Criminal activity
3 - Disaster
4 - Government/law enforcement
5 - The supernatural!
6 - Roll twice
Labour Unrest (1d8)
1 - Union trouble. A new hire has convinced the other workers that they are being exploited - not getting paid enough, not enough free time, no sick days, no benefits, bad work conditions, etc. The workers quit, perform their jobs poorly, act surly to customers, etc. There is a 50% chance that a suck-up among the labour force will secretly report to the PCs about the activities of the rabble-rouser.
Failure: Standard loss as the workers react poorly to the PC's attempted method. If this roll ends the skill challenge, the workers may go so far as to attempt arson or assassination.
2 - Death Cult. One of the workers has recently lost a family member to the plague. Without enough cash to afford the proper rituals, he was forced to go to a new temple worshipping something called The Grey Veil. In actuality it is a death cult dedicated to Orcus attempting to infiltrate the settlement. In return for the rituals, the worker is being blackmailed - to preach the word of The Grey Veil, to steal from the PCs, and to report any information on the PCs to the death cult.
Failure: The inn is infiltrated with worshippers and becomes a meeting place for the cult. They perform foul rituals in the inn while the PCs are away. Or perhaps the worker stands up to the cult and is killed, and customers stay away, creating a standard loss. Either way the death cult doubles in size! If this ends the skill challenge, the cult takes violent action against the PCs and claim the inn as their own.
3 - Shapeshifters/Mind Control. The workers are being replaced with shapeshifters - dopplegangers, succubi, oni, etc. - or are being controlled by some outside force - lycanthropes, aboleth, mind flayers, alien mind control worms, etc.
Failure: The PCs are unable to stop (or perhaps even discover) the invasion. If this ends the skill challenge, the thralls will attempt to turn/enslave the PCs.
4 - Competiton in the Labour Market. A new inn has opened up down the street and is offering better prices/benefits/etc. for its workers. The PC's inn's workers are leaving for greener pastures. What's worse is that the other inn is run by a criminal organization.
Failure: The PCs suffer a standard loss as they are unable to stay fully staffed, or they must hire poorly-trained workers to fill out their staff. The inn gains a reputation as a dump. If this ends the skill challenge, no one will work at the PC's inn - they are being threatened by the criminals who run the other place.
5 - Madness. One of the workers goes insane from a curse. He plots murderous acts and rambles to himself.
Failure: The worker's madness unchecked, he goes on a bloody killing spree. The inn must be closed down and gains a bad reputation. Loss is double standard! If this ends the skill challenge, he attempts to burn down the inn or kill the PCs - and his curse may be transferred to one of them...
6 - Romance. One of the workers falls for a PC.
Failure: It's a bad breakup, the worker feels scorned, is crazy jealous, or just crazy. At any rate, this affects work; the PCs suffer a standard loss. If this ends the skill challenge, the worker makes a deal with infernal/demonic forces to curse/kill the PC.
7 - ??
8 - Roll Twice
Criminal Activity (1d8)
1 - Extortion. The local organized crime faction moves in on the PC's inn and asks for "protection" money.
Failure: Standard loss as either the PCs pony up the cash or have to deal with broken windows, thugs harassing their customers, employees afraid to come to work, etc. If this ends the skill challenge, they torch the joint.
2 - The Black Market. It seems that the PC's inn has a reputation for being the place where you trade illegal goods. Rightly so, too. People are fencing goods, selling illegal drugs, making contracts for assassinations, trading necromantic rituals, etc. in the inn.
Failure: The PCs are charged by the local law enforcement with all these crimes. Bribes and fines make up double standard loss! If this ends the skill challenge, the PCs will be arrested for exectuion or exile. Note: it is possible the PCs profit from the black market activities; if so, they receive 1.5 times their normal profit! (Bribes take up some of it or it would be more.) However, they may draw the ire of any organized criminal group, and the more militant law enforcement groups (Paladins of St. Cuthbert, for example) may come down hard on the PCs.
3 - Murder. Someone involved in criminal activity killed a person of import, and brought the corpse to the inn to hide it.
Failure: Authorities discover the body and shut down the inn/question the patrons/the inn gets a bad reputation. PCs suffer the standard loss. If this ended the skill challenge, one of the PCs was the one who was killed. Just kidding! (Unless it's an Epic inn.) No, in that case, the authorities will shut down the inn indefinitely.
...more later.
For an inn.
Standard loss: 1/2 a random treasure parcel (1d6+4) of the inn's level.
Standard opposition: If the trouble is formed by some group, that group is comprised of enough creatures to create 1 encounter of the inn's level - 1, 2 encounters of the inn's level, and one encounter of the inn's level +2. The leader is a character of the inn's level +4.
Resolution of trouble could just be a single roll or an adventure in itself.
Random Sources of Trouble
Source of Trouble (1d6)
1 - Labour unrest
2 - Criminal activity
3 - Disaster
4 - Government/law enforcement
5 - The supernatural!
6 - Roll twice
Labour Unrest (1d8)
1 - Union trouble. A new hire has convinced the other workers that they are being exploited - not getting paid enough, not enough free time, no sick days, no benefits, bad work conditions, etc. The workers quit, perform their jobs poorly, act surly to customers, etc. There is a 50% chance that a suck-up among the labour force will secretly report to the PCs about the activities of the rabble-rouser.
Failure: Standard loss as the workers react poorly to the PC's attempted method. If this roll ends the skill challenge, the workers may go so far as to attempt arson or assassination.
2 - Death Cult. One of the workers has recently lost a family member to the plague. Without enough cash to afford the proper rituals, he was forced to go to a new temple worshipping something called The Grey Veil. In actuality it is a death cult dedicated to Orcus attempting to infiltrate the settlement. In return for the rituals, the worker is being blackmailed - to preach the word of The Grey Veil, to steal from the PCs, and to report any information on the PCs to the death cult.
Failure: The inn is infiltrated with worshippers and becomes a meeting place for the cult. They perform foul rituals in the inn while the PCs are away. Or perhaps the worker stands up to the cult and is killed, and customers stay away, creating a standard loss. Either way the death cult doubles in size! If this ends the skill challenge, the cult takes violent action against the PCs and claim the inn as their own.
3 - Shapeshifters/Mind Control. The workers are being replaced with shapeshifters - dopplegangers, succubi, oni, etc. - or are being controlled by some outside force - lycanthropes, aboleth, mind flayers, alien mind control worms, etc.
Failure: The PCs are unable to stop (or perhaps even discover) the invasion. If this ends the skill challenge, the thralls will attempt to turn/enslave the PCs.
4 - Competiton in the Labour Market. A new inn has opened up down the street and is offering better prices/benefits/etc. for its workers. The PC's inn's workers are leaving for greener pastures. What's worse is that the other inn is run by a criminal organization.
Failure: The PCs suffer a standard loss as they are unable to stay fully staffed, or they must hire poorly-trained workers to fill out their staff. The inn gains a reputation as a dump. If this ends the skill challenge, no one will work at the PC's inn - they are being threatened by the criminals who run the other place.
5 - Madness. One of the workers goes insane from a curse. He plots murderous acts and rambles to himself.
Failure: The worker's madness unchecked, he goes on a bloody killing spree. The inn must be closed down and gains a bad reputation. Loss is double standard! If this ends the skill challenge, he attempts to burn down the inn or kill the PCs - and his curse may be transferred to one of them...
6 - Romance. One of the workers falls for a PC.
Failure: It's a bad breakup, the worker feels scorned, is crazy jealous, or just crazy. At any rate, this affects work; the PCs suffer a standard loss. If this ends the skill challenge, the worker makes a deal with infernal/demonic forces to curse/kill the PC.
7 - ??
8 - Roll Twice
Criminal Activity (1d8)
1 - Extortion. The local organized crime faction moves in on the PC's inn and asks for "protection" money.
Failure: Standard loss as either the PCs pony up the cash or have to deal with broken windows, thugs harassing their customers, employees afraid to come to work, etc. If this ends the skill challenge, they torch the joint.
2 - The Black Market. It seems that the PC's inn has a reputation for being the place where you trade illegal goods. Rightly so, too. People are fencing goods, selling illegal drugs, making contracts for assassinations, trading necromantic rituals, etc. in the inn.
Failure: The PCs are charged by the local law enforcement with all these crimes. Bribes and fines make up double standard loss! If this ends the skill challenge, the PCs will be arrested for exectuion or exile. Note: it is possible the PCs profit from the black market activities; if so, they receive 1.5 times their normal profit! (Bribes take up some of it or it would be more.) However, they may draw the ire of any organized criminal group, and the more militant law enforcement groups (Paladins of St. Cuthbert, for example) may come down hard on the PCs.
3 - Murder. Someone involved in criminal activity killed a person of import, and brought the corpse to the inn to hide it.
Failure: Authorities discover the body and shut down the inn/question the patrons/the inn gets a bad reputation. PCs suffer the standard loss. If this ended the skill challenge, one of the PCs was the one who was killed. Just kidding! (Unless it's an Epic inn.) No, in that case, the authorities will shut down the inn indefinitely.
...more later.
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Wow, ask your question and in less than 24 hours someone has build a full fledged skill challenge for it! Good work!
I like the idea of the inn being a magic item of their level. I am kind of torn between acutally buying it and maybe winning it. Anyone play Might and Magic 8? You win a keep, but it turns out it is infested with goblins, on contested ground, etc. So your prize becomes a liability, but once fixed up you can put a shop or two in it, and it becauses a nice asset.
I'd be tempted to make it a quest reward, but then saddle them with debt, or an uncooprative landlord (perhaps they are only leasing it?). Maybe I am an ass, but I really dig the idea of turning it around and making it not what they want at first. Have them work for it.
Fallcrest is great, maybe the Inn can be the one on the road out in the Nentir Vale, so it sees a lot of travellers and they can't just pop next door to the quickie mart if they need anything. In a city, having a young dragon or a gorgon seek protection money is unlikely, in the boonies it is expected!
Jay
I like the idea of the inn being a magic item of their level. I am kind of torn between acutally buying it and maybe winning it. Anyone play Might and Magic 8? You win a keep, but it turns out it is infested with goblins, on contested ground, etc. So your prize becomes a liability, but once fixed up you can put a shop or two in it, and it becauses a nice asset.
I'd be tempted to make it a quest reward, but then saddle them with debt, or an uncooprative landlord (perhaps they are only leasing it?). Maybe I am an ass, but I really dig the idea of turning it around and making it not what they want at first. Have them work for it.
Fallcrest is great, maybe the Inn can be the one on the road out in the Nentir Vale, so it sees a lot of travellers and they can't just pop next door to the quickie mart if they need anything. In a city, having a young dragon or a gorgon seek protection money is unlikely, in the boonies it is expected!
Jay
