How much is too Much? (RttTOEE) (spoilers)

[sfgiants]

I know there have been many threads about this topic, but some advice/opinions would be interesting. I am currently running through Elemental Evil and we are encountering a brutal amount of character loss. What is too much? What is the norm?

Some background:

Right now we have:

6th level Wizard (conjurer)
5th level Aasimar sorcerer
6th level Astral Deva
6th level Bard (he has lost three characters in three weeks)
5th level cleric (cohort of the wizard)

We are in the Crater Ridge Mines and the group has fought three battles over the main entrance. They finally get in, wander about a bit and get whupped after a while. They have just fought the earth temple and had 1 casualty. The part usually rests in a rope trick so they have the means to rest, but it keeps gettin' ugly...

We have had 5 character deaths and we are still pretty early...Is this normal?

PS: the big U they defeated with ease. Since then, not so much. 2 died fighting hobgoblins in the Temple, 1 in the moathouse, and the rest in the doorway of the Mines.

 

[Mytholder]

Sounds about average, if on the high side. The challenges are tough, but not insurmountable if you have good tactics.

 

[Eltern]

As I'm sure you already know, RttToEE is designed to eat PCs like baby seals. So for the adventure/campaign you're running, you're right on track

Eltern

 

[Endur]

You guys are doing great. I've heard of entire parties being slain by Big U. Five deaths is on the low side for TOEE.

I am currently running through Elemental Evil and we are encountering a brutal amount of character loss. What is too much? What is the norm?

We have had 5 character deaths and we are still pretty early...Is this normal?

2 died fighting hobgoblins in the Temple, 1 in the moathouse, and the rest in the doorway of the Mines.

 

[JDragon]

I would say you are about on the right track for a normal party.

The group I'm running it for is a little further along, and have had a few more deaths, most of them being in the CRM.

Have you checked out Monte's Boards? He has a whole forum just for DM's running RttToEE.

http://pub102.ezboard.com/fokayyourturnfrm17

It has made running this much easier for me.

 

[Hawklord]

You're not doing too badly... I've been DMing the RttToEE for the last 18 months and my party is getting near the end now.

Out of 7 characters who started only one player is still playing the same PC and has gone from 3rd to 14th level. some players are on their 5th or 6th character and one character has been raised 5 or 6 times and is lagging way behind the average party level because of it.

The scenario can be a meat grinder unless the players play it real real smart.

I think you have to make it clear to your players that the attrition rate is going to be high even with relatively free access to Raise Dead and other magic ( I've lost count of the times the party have decamped back to Verbobonc with barely a handful of HPs between then, and normally lugging a corpse or two along as well)

Monte really went to town with this one !

 

[Laslo Tremaine]

I think I've lost track of how many PCs the crater ridge mines have consumed.

Here's our current party load out...

Fighter1/Cleric4/Hospitaller3; Half-Elf (used to be a dwarf, but got reincarnated)
Half-Ogre1/Fighter7; Half-Ogre (obviously)
Rogue4/Fighter4: Human
Sorcerer8; Human
Monk8; Half0-Orc (used to be human, also got reincarnated)

So far, we have had one total-party-wipeout (Vranthis the green dragon). One instance where everyone died, but one (the hospitaller made it out alive after a very bad encounter with an ochre jelly, the lesson learned was "do not use greater cleave on the ochre jelly"). And along the way we have had about one additional death per party member...

Right now they are about half way through crater ridge...

Yeah, I would definitely call this adventure a meat-grinder.

 

[der_kluge]

Every time I see this subject line, I can't help but think of the Onion picture where a little kid huddles in a corner with the caption "Child Abuse: How much is too much?"

 

[Vocenoctum]

Monte really went to town with this one !

In 3/3.5 E, this really shouldn't be possible. The EL should be fairly clearly stated and accurate. If the adventure regularly uses encounters that are wildly outside of the projected level, it's not a meatgrinder, it's just blah. If the pace is just relentless, then it's a different bit, but still results in more "fight fight rest" CRPG method of play.

But then, I was horribly disappointed in Return, having found it's choice of villain tedious and it's connection to the original to be thin at best. The adventure could have been any generic dungeon, with the ToEE stuff just added on as justification.

For those that played/ DMed, was it actually fun going through all those encounters?

 

[sfgiants]

As a dm I am enjoying it so far. I find that a lot of the enemies would be of a type I wouldn't have chosen so it stays a little fresh for me. However, I am very early into it (CRM). I am also really enjoying the lessened prep work as this is the first real module I have run. I have always made my own. I may have to try out some others once I am done...