How Much Rolemaster in D&D?

[JoeGKushner]

So on another thread, someone mentioned that the skill system in D&D is in essence, that of Rolemaster and after thinking about it, yeah. It's not the one in the new RMSS where you have general and specific categories, but close enough.

I know the XP that happens from CR vs Level is another near direct yank from the Rolemaster system.

Anything else you can think of ? I know Monte worked on RM stuff for quite a while before rounding up for 3rd ed. (Still waiting for Dark Space d20!)

 

[Rasyr]

Feats are also somewhat like the Special Background Options (and later on, Talents) from RM as well. But only somewhat....

But the skill system, yes, that is almost completely identical to the skill resolution system from RM2, back before RM allowed ranks in both categories and skills - which, incidentally, happened after Monte stopped working for ICE. RM2 is the system Monte worked on...

 

[Darkness]

Standard NPCs of various classes/levels in the DMG?

(Obviously, that could be done in any system, but...)

 

[kilamanjaro]

The idea of using one dice rolling convention to resolve all actions. In 3rd edition you always use a 20 sider and try to roll high, in previous editions 10 siders were used for inititive, surprise, etc. and sometimes you wanted to roll low. Rolemaster uses percentiles for everything.

 

[diaglo]

...in previous editions 10 siders were used for inititive

huh?


in earliest editions six siders were used for init.

 

[Darkness]

huh?


in earliest editions six siders were used for init.

He's talking about AD&D. (And you know.)

 

[Ranger REG]

huh?

in earliest editions six siders were used for init.

2nd Edition AD&D is the only version I know that uses d10 for initiative rolls. All prior editions uses d6.

 

[Janx]

Bear in mind, the ideas in D&D, while similar to RM, doesn't mean they WERE taken from RM.

I've never seen RM, but I've considered RPG design principals similar to what D&D 3.x has. Anybody with a reasonable sense of design can come to the same conclusions without seeing RM.

use the same die mechanic consistently?
how about the WEG's Star Wars d6 mechanic?
MechWarrior 1st & 2nd ed?

roll d20 + skil bonus to reach a DC?
Mechwarrior from FASA had them basically (2d6 instead)
StarWars rolled Nd6 to achieve a number if I recall.

Skills you bought points for, instead of boolean have/have not?
just about any non D&D rpg in the 90's had that.

Abilities you could buy (feats)?
Skills and Powers effectively had them buy "building" the race and class
lots of games had flaws and traits (KoDT makes fun of that rpg aspect all the time)

Certainly, Monte's work on RM would have influenced his work on D&D, but rpgs were evolving that way anyway (or some fringe ones were trying to be so different, just because).

In a way, D&D 3.x is the way it is, because the design team applied as many "modern" rpg ideas as they could to the constraints given to them. The sacred cows of "class" surely constrained the limits they could go, so they tuned everything to fit that.



Janx

 

[billd91]

Bear in mind, the ideas in D&D, while similar to RM, doesn't mean they WERE taken from RM.

I've never seen RM, but I've considered RPG design principals similar to what D&D 3.x has. Anybody with a reasonable sense of design can come to the same conclusions without seeing RM.

<snip>
Skills you bought points for, instead of boolean have/have not?
just about any non D&D rpg in the 90's had that.

<snip>

This is true, but I think the real thanks 3E owes to RM is the concept of class vs cross-class skill buying. RM's Middle Earth variant (I don't own any other RM) was the first game system I had seen in which you paid one price for skills in your class's specialties and a bit more for ones outside your class's specialty (though you could still buy them). Most other games I've seen in which you buy skills don't have that concept.

 

[kilamanjaro]

2nd Edition AD&D is the only version I know that uses d10 for initiative rolls. All prior editions uses d6.

Really? I would have sworn we used 10 siders for inititive in 1st edition and d6s for surprise rolls. Of course, it's been 15 years (at least) since I played any 1st edition.