How much would D&D cost?

[Nightfall]

Mousse,

The other stuff is irrevelant, in terms of overall price. The product lines are pretty much "in there" since WotC has controlling interest in those properties.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

The second I win that lottery, I'm totally throwing Hasbro $40 million dollars for the game; as much as is still available, anyway.

Being independently wealthy has its perks.

-TRRW

 

[mmadsen]

I asked about Buying D&D a few months back and got some info...

 

[Nightfall]

mm,

I forgot about that thread! Thanks!

Thayan,

Indeed it does.

 

[Rothe]

If you have to ask you can't afford it.

Seriously, if you have the kind of resources to afford it (even if in the low millions) ask your business guy or attorney to look into it for you. For $20,000 you can probably get a good first pass due diligence on the D&D portion of the company. If you are trying to put together a deal with multiple people really ask your attorney to make sure you follow the appropriate securiteis and partnership laws.

What makes you think they want to sell? Do you know a business development guy (or gal) at Hasbro who you could bounce a deal idea off of?

Absent the above, it is fun pipe dream but it ain't happenin.

If you really do have that kind of money, have you considered the Conan Estate?

 

[mmadsen]

What makes you think they want to sell?

If you honestly believe you can run the company (WotC) better than Hasbro, then you should be willing to offer a price more than the company is worth to Hasbro. If the private equity guys and I-bankers agree with you, you can get the money.

 

[Imruphel]

The number I heard tossed around three years ago or so--and this is 3rd-hand information, so take it for what it's worth--was $30 million.

Whether it's gone up, down, or stayed the same since I heard that (assuming it was accurate to begin with) I couldn't begin to say.

I strongly suspect that the price would be lower now because of the sale of the digital rights. I would expect that the digital rights are worth significantly more than the "print" part of the business.

As for a price, now would not be the time to buy anyway. Globally, asset prices are too high at present; the only time to buy such a marginal business as this would be after a fairly major correction. After all, this is not a growth industry, it's very much a niche business, so the price needs to reflect that.

If someone can extract the earnings for WotC from the Hasbro report I think we could work out a reasonably accurate price soon enough.

 

[Nightfall]

Imp,

All I care about is finding someone with better business sense AND also willing to take losses.

Also just because Hasbro owns it doesn't mean they won't sell. These are business guys. All they care about IS the bottom line. Period. Good intentions don't get you squat in their book. That or ethics either.

 

[Imruphel]

Imp, All I care about is finding someone with better business sense AND also willing to take losses.

Ni, better business sense is about being willing NOT to take losses. You only take up-front losses if there is long-term gain. The really chunky part of the value of the D&D brand is in electronic rights and I understand those rights have been sold off. This hobby (not industry and not business) is shrinking thanks to the impact of PCs and other forms of electronic gaming so the long-term value, IMO, is not really there.

Also just because Hasbro owns it doesn't mean they won't sell. These are business guys. All they care about IS the bottom line. Period. Good intentions don't get you squat in their book. That or ethics either.

Of course Hasbro would sell. Anyone will sell if the price is right. However, this thread is about BUYING D&D. Part of my business is investment banking so I am just giving some of my thoughts about the issues I would need to consider before buying this hobby.

And one of the key things to consider at the moment is that asset prices globally are grossly inflated. That means that the price that Hasbro would be willing to sell at would be, IMO, far too high at present to represent real value to the buyer.

That said, if I was advising WotC's staff, I would be suggesting to them that they look at an MBO possibly in tandem with the team at Paizo. They might be able to negotiate a more realistic price than an outsider (plus would have a better sense of the long-term value that could be extracted from the business).

The comments about ethics are completely inappropriate and purely a cheap shot. Leave the comments about "Hasbro suits" and related nonsense for the 12-year old kiddies; you're better than that.

 

[Nightfall]

Imruphel,

I'm better than that?! Me, mister "I adore Orcus and Scarred Lands?" Boy you have a higher opinion of me than I thought! Thanks! But you make good points and I'll keep that in mind.