How powerful is Silent Image? As powerful as mass invisibility?

[Marius]

As a general rule, figments can create, but not suppress, sensation. A figment can't make something that is there not appear to be there, <snip>
Daniel

According to the PHB, it can...

 

[Petrosian]

Marius, it is often good to read more than the first paragraph. An ILLUSION spell can certainly do any of those things, but SPECIFIC types of illusions cannot necessarily do so.

Looking lower, you see specific examples of what each TYPE of illusion can and cannot do.

for example: Figment: A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. (It is not a personalized mental impression.) Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language the character can speak. If the character tries to duplicate a language the character cannot speak, the image produces gibberish. Likewise, the character cannot make a visual copy of something unless the character knows what it looks like.

Now, for the waeustiion of making a wall, the fourth level spell illusory wall is a figment and does create a permanent wall illusion. So it does seem clear that figments can make walls.

First paragraph under the description for illusion in PHB

"Illusion spells decieve the senses or minds of others. The cause people to see things that are not there, not see things that are there, hear phantom noises, or remember things that never happened."

The spell has a saving throw if the illusion is interacted with. If the monsters touched the wall, or threw something at it, for instance then they should get a will save. It is reasonable to assume that the monsters, depending on intelligence, would be suspicious if a party disappeared suddenly. Given a high enough intelligence, they would probably search for hidden doors, etc. If this is the case, as soon as one of their hands went through a wall, I would have them make an intensely low will save.

 

[drnuncheon]

According to the PHB, it can...

Nope, that's a glamer. Check p158.

You can make a wall appear to be present with a figment, but that's not the same as making someone disappear. You couldn't, for example, cast a figment of an empty room the same size as the room you were standing in - at least, doing so wouldn't make you invisible.

You could cast a 'wall' halfway across the room that makes it look exactly as if the room was empty, but it would be basically like a wall with an incredibly detailed & accurate painting. It might pass a quick glance, but if the creature moved or looked at it from a different perspective it would be able to tell that it was flat and not the real room.

You could also cast a figment of (say) a pillar and then hide inside of it.

J

 

[Marius]

Marius, it is often good to read more than the first paragraph. An ILLUSION spell can certainly do any of those things, but SPECIFIC types of illusions cannot necessarily do so.

Looking lower, you see specific examples of what each TYPE of illusion can and cannot do.

for example: Figment: A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. (It is not a personalized mental impression.) Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language the character can speak. If the character tries to duplicate a language the character cannot speak, the image produces gibberish. Likewise, the character cannot make a visual copy of something unless the character knows what it looks like.

Now, for the waeustiion of making a wall, the fourth level spell illusory wall is a figment and does create a permanent wall illusion. So it does seem clear that figments can make walls.

Well, this was more in response to the notion that the previous poster said "They simply cannot". I stated they could, not that they neccessarily had to. Its all in the context.

 

[Pielorinho]

According to the PHB, it can...

Marius, you're missing the point that I said "figment," not "illusion" or "glamer." I believe i am correct in my description of the limitation of figments.

Daniel

 

[Marius]

Marius, you're missing the point that I said "figment," not "illusion" or "glamer." I believe i am correct in my description of the limitation of figments.

Daniel

I guess it would depend on what was meant by making something that was there appear to not be there. If you hide it behind a wall with a figment, it would no longer appear to be there, no?

But no, it wouldnt just make it invisible.

 

[IceBear]

Marius, you're missing the point that I said "figment," not "illusion" or "glamer." I believe i am correct in my description of the limitation of figments.

Daniel

I had to edit my post

I read it too fast and missed where you said figments

Hope you saw I was just trying to tease you, and now you get to get me instead

IceBear

 

[Pielorinho]

I guess it would depend on what was meant by making something that was there appear to not be there. If you hide it behind a wall with a figment, it would no longer appear to be there, no?

But no, it wouldnt just make it invisible.

First, lemme take care of some outstanding business.

IceBear: Gotcha! No worries.

Now, Marius, lemme give my general rule of thumb again: I'm afraid you misread it the first and second times you looked at it. I think you'll find we're in complete agreement.

As a general rule, figments can create, but not suppress, sensation. A figment can't make something that is there not appear to be there, and it can't dampen sound, and it can't remove an odor. However, it can create a wall to hide something that is there, and it can create loud noise to drown out quiet noise, and it can create the odor of pepper-laced rotten meat to overpower the odor of human passage.

(bolding added)
To you, Marius, I say: Boo-yah!
Daniel

 

[Marius]

First, lemme take care of some outstanding business.

IceBear: Gotcha! No worries.

Now, Marius, lemme give my general rule of thumb again: I'm afraid you misread it the first and second times you looked at it. I think you'll find we're in complete agreement.



(bolding added)
To you, Marius, I say: Boo-yah!
Daniel

Total face to me! Hehe, you are correct, the thread got all confusing after a bit, and I've been up all night posting

"END COMMUNICATION"
(But why? Its what this board is all about!)

 

[Apok]

A figment can't make something that is there not appear to be there

and...

However, it can create a wall to hide something that is there

This was snipped from an above quote.

Don't these two clauses say, essentially, the same bloody thing? You can't make something appear to not be there but you can hide it. Either way, the object in question isn't recognizable as what it really is. I don't know about you guys, but it ammounts to pretty much the same bag of Oreos, yes?

I think the big thing that is unclear is that a Figment can't hide something directly (by making it invisible) but it can hide it indirectly, say by encasing it in another illusion such as a wall, a pillar, a Velvet Elvis, whatever.

So, while a Figment can't make something invisible, it can hide you and mask your presence if you don't move around or make alot of noise.

To drnuncheon;

I don't quite see what you are getting at. You're saying a figment can only create a two-dimensional object? I don't think so. A figment can be three dimensional and have depth and texture that can be easily seen.