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How Quickly is C&C Catching on?

Psion said:
Some do seem to forget that, yes...
Or maybe we are looking at the past with clear vision, instead of what comes across as an argumentative and dark remembrance. If gaming was so bad back then why did you ever get into it enough to still be here all these years later?

There are no rose colored glasses. If everyone thought RPG's should be done the same there would not be Palladium, White Wolfs system, Deciphers CODA system, rolemaster, Harn, Traveller, etc...

If C&C isn't the game system for you, fine. If you are anti-C&C why are you posting on this thread? This thread is about those with positive opinions about C&C, not nay-sayers.
 

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I agree, their are good things about all the games, old or new. Heck, I run a C&C campaign, and play in a 3.0 DnD Campaign. I love to do both, and it's a lot of fun.
 

Treebore said:
Or maybe we are looking at the past with clear vision, instead of what comes across as an argumentative and dark remembrance. If gaming was so bad back then why did you ever get into it enough to still be here all these years later?
I didn't. I quit for years, and more specifically, I quit D&D for years because it was so frustrating.
Treebore said:
There are no rose colored glasses. If everyone thought RPG's should be done the same there would not be Palladium, White Wolfs system, Deciphers CODA system, rolemaster, Harn, Traveller, etc...
Quite true.
Treebore said:
If C&C isn't the game system for you, fine. If you are anti-C&C why are you posting on this thread? This thread is about those with positive opinions about C&C, not nay-sayers.
Apparently you missed the first post in the thread if that's what you think its about...
 

I was wondering, would it be possible for somebody to list the first three levels of each the Fighter class and Thief class, especially the xp required for each level. I just want to see something about multiclassing.

Multiclassing is what I like about 3e over the previous editions. I like that I can gain 1000 and choose my class I want to gain a level in without many requirements or disadvantages. I hated that about pre-3e versions. I hated that a person could gain 5 levels in Fighter, than dual-class and can now gain levels ONLY in that new class, without going back to the previous class. That just doesn't strike me as fun. I didn't like the multiclassing rules either, just confused me (and trying to figure hit points, attack bonuses, etc. from multiclassing was messed up to me).

I like that I can start as Fighter 1, gain a level, choose Rogue 1, and switch back and forth, and then lets say something happens and I die but get brought back and I have a change of heart, I could also take levels as a Cleric if I wanted. I was wondering about how that would work in C&C, since each has different xp charts.

If a person did the older multiclassing option, picking Fighter/Thief and gain xp in both and divide it, how long would it take to get a character to Fighter 4/Thief 4, and how much xp would each class need?

Compare to the 3e option, but using C&C charts... how much xp would be required for a person in C&C to become a Fighter 4/Thief 4?

Which option would make more sense with classes that have variant xp charts?
 


Steve did not want to go down the advertising/marketing raod we currently find ourselves travelling. He wanted "Castles & Crusades: For the Professional Gamer" or some such. In retrospect, he may have had a better idea. My marketing strategy was "here is game we came up with dudes. its short sweet and simple and so easy to manipulate i'm bringing in warhammer rules!!! take a look, you might like it."

Our marketing (and I use that word in the broadest sense possible) strategy may have needed refinement. My suggestion is, if you are curious, wait for the book to show up at a local game store or bookstore or perhaps get a copy from a friend who may drop by and have one on hand, peruse it and decide whether or not it may be worth your time to play a game or two.

You may not like it. As Kanegrundar elegently, consisely and politely pointed out, it was just not his cup of tea. (I am assuming you are male as your sig and such is that of my 2nd favorite S&S character of all time - Kane. The author, Karl Edward Wagner, penned a number of decidedly dark tales about Kane. Check them out.)

C&C will not be to everyone's liking. There are a vast number of games out their and an even more vast number of tastes and desires. It can not be everything to everyone. So don't fret, even though I have invested a bit of time an effort in the project and am quite happy and proud of it (as should be not a few members of the C&C Society), I also understand others will not take to it. I am neither offended nor put off. It a a broad world after all and enough room for all of us to play our games -- whichever those be.

On this, I think some people are taking offense at C&Cs existance. As if its very premise is an affront to 3.5. Its not. As I have said in the past, 3.x is a great system. Its level of complexity and the manner in which it comes together is an example of some profoundly good game design. In fact, I have come to think of 3.5 as a system design rather than a game design. And no, that is not to impugn it as a game. There are other games that I also have admiration for - Rolemaster, Warhammer and Exalted to name a few.

I had a point to this post but between this and Army of Darkness I am having a difficult time concentrating and staying on course.

So here, let me make some quick points

1: C&C is a stand alone game. It can be run on its own without houseruling, without porting in other rules and without difficulty.

2: C&C has a very simple engine at its core. In fact, a simplified C&C can be run only on the SIEGE engine. One could nix attribute scores altogether and still run a game. One could nix ACs altogether. One could nix classes and still run the game. This, in my mind, makes it a powerful engine. Risk has a powerful game engine at its core. Monopoly also has a powerful game engine. The longevity and popularity of these games speaks to its core engines.

3: (midget attack in army of darkness) C&C is already, as far as TLG is concerned, a viable game that will be supported. No doubts. No ifs. No buts. it is just now arriving in stores through the normal distribution channels (we were wrong, we thought it would hit last week but our LGS distibutor told us he only shipped them this morning). Some storespre-ordered or called us up and ordered them

Sales will be spotty and localized with popular hot spots. We are already noting a few. In other areas it may not be so popular. But suffice it to say, C&C is here to stay. And, I am certain it will grow in popularity (and I am putting my money where my mouth is).

Uhh back in a minute.....

:lol: If you have not seen Army of Darkness, please watch it. :cool:

where was I going.... who knows?

uhh

real quick, multi-classing has not been officially dealt with yet. Its going to be difficult. If you want to help in the development of those rules,please feel free to join the discussions on our boards.

other issues....

cripes. I'll be back much later with my post on monsters. I need to do something, something...

davis
 

Anabstercorian said:
There aren't any multiclassing rules yet.

Davis, can you email me the password for the Castle Keepers Guide development forum on your message boards? I can't get in. :(

Oh, and Army of Darkness is one of my wife's favorite movies (I like Evil Dead II even more). :cool:

~Dan Cross
nathal@comcast.net
 
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DMScott said:
I was pretty disappointed when I saw the C&C book - some relatively important stuff seems to have not made it in.

Ummmm .... LIKE WHAT? :\

The only 'important thing' that I can think of that is missing are the rules for multiclassing.

Aside from that, in terms of rules, the PHB has everything that any version of the AD&D PHB had (1e, 2e, or 3e).

In fact, it has more: it includes GM advice on how to run campaigns and adventures.

I can understand if C&C is not everyone's (or even most people's) bag. But it is annoying when people make hopelessly vague or unsubstantiated criticisms and/or comments about the game.

DMScott said:
It looks like it's being marketed more as a nostalgic fad than a truly robust and complete game system.

It seems pretty clear that it is being marketed as a very robust and complete game system. Contrary to your vague assertion to the contrary, that is precisely what it is.

DMScott said:
... but I do know that it means it ain't the game for me.

Fair enough. Exalted is not the game for me -- but at least if I go to a thread on Exalted and criticize it, I back my criticisms up by actually referring to the product itself, and not by making vague unjustified claims.

Sorry for being snarky, but if I posted on a thread on a 3E product and made a bunch of vague unwarranted claims about the product, people would jump all over me (and rightfully so -- sorry ENWorld for that one Eberron quip a while back ;) .)
 

Kanegrundar said:
... That said, there are a few things that I liked:
1. It's super simple. I had a character done within 5-10 minutes of being handed the C&C PHB. That's nice!
2. It's easy to convert between systems. The guy running the game used 1E, 2E, and 3E material all in the same game. He even converted a few critters from each on the fly pretty quickly.

These are two huge selling points for me.

And (1.) cuts down massively on prep time for GMs.

Kanegrundar said:
However, there were some things that I didn't like:
1. I didn't like how the ability scores were set up. After playing 3E for a while, the change just didn't make a lot of sense to me.
2. Multiple saving throws. Why? I just don't see the point of going back to old way of doing saving throws as opposed to 3E's 3 saves.

I have mixed feelings about (1.). But it is something easily modified -- you could use the 3E modifiers for the system instead with no problem.

As for (2.), I actually like this feature about C&C -- it ensures that there is no 'dump stat' for any character, regardless of class. But again, if this one aspect of C&C really bothered you, you could use the 3E system with no problem.

My responses to your criticisms here brings me to my third reason for liking C&C, viz. the fact that it is eminently modular and tweakable.

Kanegrundar said:
I guess my main detraction from C&C was I like 3E. There are a lot of rules, but at least I know there will likely be a rule for anything my players throw at me. It's the right system for me, so I won't be switching over.

Sure. There are different DM styles. Some DMs like an explicit rule for every contingency. Other DMs prefer a looser structure, where they use the game's general structure do determine how to resolve particular actions. Neither style is 'right' -- it just depends on how you like to run your games.
:cool:

The fact that C&C cuts down massively on my prep work, and that my group can get through a compelte adventure in a 4 hour session, is what made decide to convert my campaign over to C&C.
:)

However, that just has to do with my DM style. I will be happy to play once another member of my group (finally) gets his 3E Midnight campaign started...
 

I take everything negative I said about C&C back.

If the designer posted while watching Army of Darkness, the system must be good. :D

Okay... I still think it's inelegant, but hardly to the point I wouldn't want to play it. ;)
 

Into the Woods

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